Random Packer News & Notes

[TransientTexan]

Whatever GB decides to do, I think they generally have earned the benefit of the doubt regarding OL decisions over the last couple decades. Few teams do it better. 

I would also add that this is lying-season for the NFL. Every bit of “leaked” information should be taken with a grain of salt. It could be a smokescreen to throw other teams off the scent of who they will prioritize in the draft. 
 

[OneTwoSixFive]

5 hours ago, TransientTexan said:

Whatever GB decides to do, I think they generally have earned the benefit of the doubt regarding OL decisions over the last couple decades. Few teams do it better. 

I would also add that this is lying-season for the NFL. Every bit of “leaked” information should be taken with a grain of salt. It could be a smokescreen to throw other teams off the scent of who they will prioritize in the draft. 
 

Some teams are just better picking some positions than others. Packers have done fine at WR and QB and even better at OL, but their DBs - not so much.

[turf toe]

On 4/12/2024 at 1:24 PM, packfanfb said:

It would be so on brand for the Packers to F up their OL alignment given a few of the blunders since Bak's injury, but yea, what Ben said. 

Cheesehead TV claimed insider info years ago that Bakhtiari would be a PB LT, All pro G and a HOF center, so I tend to hit pause on insider info from Cheesehead TV, lol

when I watch tape of Bakhtiari I see little difference with Toms, both play wide and squared up on pass rusher with solid anchor, point is Toms could also play LT, wouldn't shock me a bit if we flipped Walker and Toms.

what to me seems illogical, is for a player like Toms to move to a position that pays less then a position where he is now one of the best in the league at, or possibly a switch to the highest paid position at LT, Toms plays like a first round draft pick, no way I see him moving anywhere inside. jmo

[HokieHigh]

39 minutes ago, turf toe said:

Cheesehead TV claimed insider info years ago that Bakhtiari would be a PB LT, All pro G and a HOF center, so I tend to hit pause on insider info from Cheesehead TV, lol

when I watch tape of Bakhtiari I see little difference with Toms, both play wide and squared up on pass rusher with solid anchor, point is Toms could also play LT, wouldn't shock me a bit if we flipped Walker and Toms.

what to me seems illogical, is for a player like Toms to move to a position that pays less then a position where he is now one of the best in the league at, or possibly a switch to the highest paid position at LT, Toms plays like a first round draft pick, no way I see him moving anywhere inside. jmo

IOL is dirtier work for less money. You would have to be mental to want to move in.

 

Some guys are nasty enough to love it but not sure tom is that guy

[AlexGreen#20]

42 minutes ago, turf toe said:

Cheesehead TV claimed insider info years ago that Bakhtiari would be a PB LT, All pro G and a HOF center, so I tend to hit pause on insider info from Cheesehead TV, lol

when I watch tape of Bakhtiari I see little difference with Toms, both play wide and squared up on pass rusher with solid anchor, point is Toms could also play LT, wouldn't shock me a bit if we flipped Walker and Toms.

what to me seems illogical, is for a player like Toms to move to a position that pays less then a position where he is now one of the best in the league at, or possibly a switch to the highest paid position at LT, Toms plays like a first round draft pick, no way I see him moving anywhere inside. jmo

If you ignore the part about Guard, what they said about Bakhtiari is dead on. 

Let's be real for a minute here. Zach Tom has been excellent at our style of pass pro, but he's not an elite or even notably above average run blocker. You don't need that to be a great Tackle, but let's understand what we have here. 

[Mazrimiv]

I think every understands that Tom will never be a force in the running game.  That's part of why I am not getting the talk of how great he would be at guard.

[spilltray]

You can scheme running lanes open, but your OL has to be able to handle 1v1s in pass protection.

[Mr. Fussnputz]

Re-GUARDING Tom. Gute's probably just blowing smoke before the draft, not because he likes being the CENTER of attention, but because he likes to TACKLE the process by creating confusion among his opponents. 

[turf toe]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

If you ignore the part about Guard, what they said about Bakhtiari is dead on. 

Let's be real for a minute here. Zach Tom has been excellent at our style of pass pro, but he's not an elite or even notably above average run blocker. You don't need that to be a great Tackle, but let's understand what we have here. 

please explain Packers style of pass pro? confused, Toms has excelled in gap or zone blocking, and run blocking is a learned skill set for most pro OL man.

why would our coaches (anyone consider him as elite Center if he can't run block? 

I think your down grading what could be a strength simply because he doesn't top 320 lbs

Blocking is more about leverage, rooting a guy out rather then pushing him, Sitton, Lang, Linsley, Rivera etc. where no bigger and where pretty good run blockers.

Edited April 14 by turf toe

[HokieHigh]

25 minutes ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Re-GUARDING Tom. Gute's probably just blowing smoke before the draft, not because he likes being the CENTER of attention, but because he likes to TACKLE the process by creating confusion among his opponents. 

That is RIGHT and you LEFT nothing out.

[AlexGreen#20]

5 minutes ago, turf toe said:

please explain Packers style of pass pro? confused, Toms has excelled in gap or zone blocking, and run blocking is a learned skill set for most pro OL man.

why would our coaches (anyone consider him as elite Center if he can't run block? 

 

I think your down grading what could be a strength simply because he doesn't top 320 lbs

Think of Pass Blocking as dancing. Who is leading?

Some teams teach that the Offensive Lineman should lead. That he should shoot his hands hard and fast, keep the pass rusher outside of his chest and control the engagement from a position of strength. The downside here is that if the hand punch doesn't land, the offensive lineman is off balance and gets beaten. This has become less popular as Defensive Lineman get better with their hands. 

The Packers strategy is that the Defensive Lineman should lead. Make the Defensive Lineman shoot his hands first, and trust that the Offensive Lineman can anchor down against the power long enough for him to counter the initial punch and stalemate the rusher. 

The Offensive Lineman shooting first has the higher ceiling because it enforces a wider pocket, in the more classic U shape. The downside is that they get beat cleanly more often. 

The Offensive Lineman shooting second doesn't make such a wide pocket, narrower at the top where the Tackles kick back to, in a more O like pocket. But they also don't get beat cleanly as often. 

+++

Tom hasn't really excelled in a gap scheme at all. In fact our ability to run to the right side was rather brutal this year. Between he and Runyan Jr. neither one had much in the way of drive skills to move anybody. When you're running the gap scheme, the ability to generate movement off of those double teams is key. He's better going playside when more often he's asked to go second level off of the double, but when it comes to dislodging 310lb DEs, we didn't have a ton of luck with it. 

+++

As far as being an elite Center, the requirements are different. Guys that have the physical fit to play Center are often smaller and have less drive skills anyway. Tom is above average drive skill wise for a Center, less so for a Tackle. 

+++

I would also argue that run blocking is one of the cleanest transitions in the pros. Offensive Lineman transitioning from college tot he pros have the issue that they run into Defensive Lineman who know how to hold, and how to get away from being held. Good old fashioned straight ahead drive blocking (or coming together with your partner on a double team) are some of the least effected skills in the transition. 

 

[Refugee]

2 hours ago, HokieHigh said:

IOL is dirtier work for less money. You would have to be mental to want to move in.

 

Some guys are nasty enough to love it but not sure tom is that guy

There is truth here and to be a great lineman you have to have a nasty SOB somewhere inside of you, but playing guard definitely means you gotta embrace it. I do think with the emphasis on interior pass rush teams will be looking for the best interior OL to counter. We will see the elite guards starting to get paid more and I do believe the franchise tag is the same not making a distinction between G and OT. 

Edited April 14 by Refugee

[ThatJerkDave]

1 hour ago, Mr. Fussnputz said:

Re-GUARDING Tom. Gute's probably just blowing smoke before the draft, not because he likes being the CENTER of attention, but because he likes to TACKLE the process by creating confusion among his opponents. 

 

39 minutes ago, HokieHigh said:

That is RIGHT and you LEFT nothing out.

[turf toe]

2 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Think of Pass Blocking as dancing. Who is leading?

Some teams teach that the Offensive Lineman should lead. That he should shoot his hands hard and fast, keep the pass rusher outside of his chest and control the engagement from a position of strength. The downside here is that if the hand punch doesn't land, the offensive lineman is off balance and gets beaten. This has become less popular as Defensive Lineman get better with their hands. 

The Packers strategy is that the Defensive Lineman should lead. Make the Defensive Lineman shoot his hands first, and trust that the Offensive Lineman can anchor down against the power long enough for him to counter the initial punch and stalemate the rusher. 

The Offensive Lineman shooting first has the higher ceiling because it enforces a wider pocket, in the more classic U shape. The downside is that they get beat cleanly more often. 

The Offensive Lineman shooting second doesn't make such a wide pocket, narrower at the top where the Tackles kick back to, in a more O like pocket. But they also don't get beat cleanly as often. 

+++

Tom hasn't really excelled in a gap scheme at all. In fact our ability to run to the right side was rather brutal this year. Between he and Runyan Jr. neither one had much in the way of drive skills to move anybody. When you're running the gap scheme, the ability to generate movement off of those double teams is key. He's better going playside when more often he's asked to go second level off of the double, but when it comes to dislodging 310lb DEs, we didn't have a ton of luck with it. 

+++

As far as being an elite Center, the requirements are different. Guys that have the physical fit to play Center are often smaller and have less drive skills anyway. Tom is above average drive skill wise for a Center, less so for a Tackle. 

+++

I would also argue that run blocking is one of the cleanest transitions in the pros. Offensive Lineman transitioning from college tot he pros have the issue that they run into Defensive Lineman who know how to hold, and how to get away from being held. Good old fashioned straight ahead drive blocking (or coming together with your partner on a double team) are some of the least effected skills in the transition. 

 

I know grading platforms differ, anyway heres a comment I just saw about Toms run blocking chops, which I feel is about what I've seen and expected to read, not sure who wrote that and the link wont attach

I understand the hit first versus wait for the defender to, it allows better ability to reset for inside counter, and I've never thought we do either scheme predominately on every snap, whatever these comments seem significant

Tom allowed only two sacks and two quarterback hits across 1,162 total snaps, and his four combined sacks and hits allowed ranked as the second fewest among offensive tackles with at least 600 snaps played. He was the fifth highest graded offensive tackle in run blocking.Feb 5, 2024

again when I watch old clips of young Bakhtiari, and watch games of Toms last year, it's hard to tell them apart, both get and stay wide quickly and have the feet to reset on a dime, not saying Zack will become David good ever, just that he has some of the same type of skill set.

again thanks for your opinion Green, always read your comments.

[DecoctionMash]

On 4/10/2024 at 10:55 AM, OneTwoSixFive said:

Of course if you live in England, later games (7-7.30pm start local time) start at 1.30am our time, which means bedtime is about 5am.

No one can question our international fans’ loyalty and love of the Green Bay Packers. Much respect.