Random Packer News & Notes

[vegas492]

Hmm. Trade up in round one for a WR or QB.  Let's just say for argument's sake that Aiyuk was viewed as a "starting WR".  And let's just say that Love was viewed as having "starting ability" at QB.

It's QB all day long in round one.  I just don't think you trade up in round one for a WR.  You totally do if you think you can get a QB that has starter material.  (And maybe more.)

Round 2?  Yah, no doubt that is where you want your WR.  It certainly wasn't Mims.  That makes sense.

But round one?  Considering the reaction from our coach/GM...they got their guy.  This was no consolation prize.

[packfanfb]

On 8/3/2020 at 10:00 AM, vegas492 said:

Hmm. Trade up in round one for a WR or QB.  Let's just say for argument's sake that Aiyuk was viewed as a "starting WR".  And let's just say that Love was viewed as having "starting ability" at QB.

It's QB all day long in round one.  I just don't think you trade up in round one for a WR.  You totally do if you think you can get a QB that has starter material.  (And maybe more.)

Round 2?  Yah, no doubt that is where you want your WR.  It certainly wasn't Mims.  That makes sense.

But round one?  Considering the reaction from our coach/GM...they got their guy.  This was no consolation prize.

The first part isn't true in all respects. Positional value overall certainly favors QB, but it depends on the team, team needs to a degree, and where that team is in terms of SB contention. The Niners obviously traded up for a WR in round 1. 

As to the latter, you can pretty much put zero stock into a coach/GM reaction about a player or draft pick. What are they going to say other than say the guy they took was their No. 1 guy? 

[MacReady]

I happen to think the Packers have been honest with the Love pick.  I feel Aiyuk and Love were their last two first round grades.  One goes, make sure you get the other.

[packfanfb]

Good news. Under the new CBA, I think I saw something where the league would not have been able to suspend Z for the pot charge anyways. Think there were changes regarding week possession this last go around. 

[vegas492]

56 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

The first part isn't true in all respects. Positional value overall certainly favors QB, but it depends on the team, team needs to a degree, and where that team is in terms of SB contention. The Niners obviously traded up for a WR in round 1. 

As to the latter, you can pretty much put zero stock into a coach/GM reaction about a player or draft pick. What are they going to say other than say the guy they took was their No. 1 guy? 

I put more stock in coach/GM reaction when we got to see it in "real" time.  No rehearsed post draft stuff, just the elation at making their pick.

And I still feel like it is highly more likely to trade up for a QB in round one than a WR.  I hope that the Packers would be smart enough to avoid that in round one.  And then be wise to do it in round two.

[MrBobGray]

On 8/2/2020 at 5:54 PM, packfanfb said:

If Gutey is being truthful, it raises a question that is certainly key to the 2020 season: Does our GM really feel okay with our current WR group? If not, what does he plan to do about it a month before the season (hopefully) starts? 

Few points: 

1. Sources said the Packers were in the mix during last year's trade deadline for a WR, suggesting Gutey knew/felt there was a problem at WR. 

2. This off-season, the Packers were the runner-up to landing the top FA WR -- Emmanuel Sanders, who, if you believe Sanders, got a competitive offer from GB (probably around $9-10m AAV), but chose NO because of the dome/weather, family and because GB wanted him to sign a 2-year deal instead of a 1-year contract. Still, this again points to Gutey acknowledging the lack of top-level at WR and trying to do something about it. However, very similar to the Allen Robinson situation, we didn't get our guy.

3. Gutey signs Funchess. Not a major move, but still an huge upgrade over Allison (our one WR FA loss) and whether he ended up the No. 2 or not, statistically, Funchess would have probably been our No. 2, or at worst, No. 3 at the start of the season. This seemingly was Gute's consolation prize after missing out on Sanders, and not a bad grab given how poor the FA WR market was this year. Whether it upgraded our WR core just a little or a lot, it was still an upgrade (until the opt-out).  

4. During the 1st round of the draft, there is speculation that when GB moved up to 26 (deal with Miami), the guy they wanted wasn't Love, but Brandon Aiyuk. Minn was on the clock at 25 and GB knew they weren't going WR (having just picked Jefferson at 22) and also knew Minn wouldn't be a trade candidate, so some think (I am one of them) that GB made the deal with Miami while Minn was still on the clock, with the thinking that Minn would make a pick, leaving Aiyuk as the pick for GB. Instead, SF jumped us, made the pick, and Gutey went with Love, later saying that he had intel that other teams wanted to move up to grab Love (although, after the draft there was no information that surfaced supporting that another team was attempting to move up for Love, so idk...). Still think Aiyuk was 1(A) at 26, because again, Gutey felt WR needed a play-maker after missing out on Sanders in FA. 

5. The tweet above. Gutey apparently tells King he wanted to move up in the 2nd round to grab 1 of 2 WRs still left on the board. This was probably Pittman or Claypool because Mims was there and we could have easily traded up a few spots for him, but we stayed put. Regardless, this talk from Gute, again if truthful, reinforces the position that he wanted to upgrade the WR group (even after signing Funchess). 

Now, fast-forward to present. Funchess is gone and we are back to status quo: Adams...........Lazard, MVS, EQ....Kumerow, and the rest. Basically, the exact same crew and we are back to talking about "well Lazard is going to be better," "well, EQ is back and he looked good 2 years ago in a few games," "well, it's year 3 for MVS, look out." Sure, maybe one or more of those things happen (we sure better hope so or we're really screwed), but the fact remains, since mid-last year to present, Gute has at least given the appearance of wanting/trying to upgrade this unit, both during FA and possibly through the first 2 rounds of the draft if picks had fallen a little differently. Yet, now Gutey seemingly is back to the typical coach-speak of "we like our guys, " "next man up," and "we like the WR group" etc. etc.  even after Funchess's opt-out. Is that true? Is Gutey really going to go into the season without another WR move? It'll be interesting to see whether he "tries" again to add talent to the position or simply gives up and goes with the group as is. 

In the same article, King says the following:

Quote

Gutekunst told me Sunday that the Packers didn’t enter the draft thinking they’d pick Love; he thought Love might be gone in the teens or early twenties. But they had him ranked so well on their board that once he started falling through the twenties, he became a target. With significant intel that a team drafting high in the second round—perhaps Indianapolis, at 34—was trying to trade up for Love, Gutekunst felt he had to trade up to have a chance at Love. He traded up four slots, with Miami.

You can't use the article as proof that Gutekunst wanted to upgrade the WR room and then also claim that the Packers secretly wanted a WR in the 1st and Gutekunst is just covering because they ended up with Love instead.  There's no evidence that this is the case, and plenty of evidence that it isn't from your own source; quotes from the people involved, their reactions on the day, a lack of even circumstantial evidence that they wanted Aiyuk at 26.

And of course they're looking to add receivers; you usually carry 5-7 of them and the Packers have one guy who's under contract past 2021 right now.  You don't draft for the year you're in; rookies simply don't make a big enough impact to substantially change a team.  You draft for the future, with an eye on having those young guys ready to play when you need them.  

 

[incognito_man]

6 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

In the same article, King says the following:

You can't use the article as proof that Gutekunst wanted to upgrade the WR room and then also claim that the Packers secretly wanted a WR in the 1st and Gutekunst is just covering because they ended up with Love instead.  There's no evidence that this is the case, and plenty of evidence that it isn't from your own source; quotes from the people involved, their reactions on the day, a lack of even circumstantial evidence that they wanted Aiyuk at 26.

And of course they're looking to add receivers; you usually carry 5-7 of them and the Packers have one guy who's under contract past 2021 right now.  You don't draft for the year you're in; rookies simply don't make a big enough impact to substantially change a team.  You draft for the future, with an eye on having those young guys ready to play when you need them.  

 

Agreed. There's no way a team trades up in the first without knowing exactly who is available. Teams find out far sooner than tv viewers who was picked.

[packfanfb]

2 minutes ago, MrBobGray said:

In the same article, King says the following:

You can't use the article as proof that Gutekunst wanted to upgrade the WR room and then also claim that the Packers secretly wanted a WR in the 1st and Gutekunst is just covering because they ended up with Love instead.  There's no evidence that this is the case, and plenty of evidence that it isn't from your own source; quotes from the people involved, their reactions on the day, a lack of even circumstantial evidence that they wanted Aiyuk at 26.

And of course they're looking to add receivers; you usually carry 5-7 of them and the Packers have one guy who's under contract past 2021 right now.  You don't draft for the year you're in; rookies simply don't make a big enough impact to substantially change a team.  You draft for the future, with an eye on having those young guys ready to play when you need them.  

 

Not using the article as proof of anything. That's the point. No one but Brian Gutekunst and few people around him know the truth about what happened on draft night and whether Love was the pick at 26 all along. Moreover, both could certainly be true. Gute absolutely may have wanted a certain WR at 26, and when he wasn't there he went with Love, which then directly led him to try to move up in the 2nd round to grab a WR; or he intentionally bypassed WR in round 1 because he wanted Love all along and then tried to move up in the 2nd. Each scenario is equally plausible. Again, there is ample evidence that Gute has acknowledged a need to add WR talent --> he went after the top FA WR on the market outside of Cooper (who was never leaving Dallas), plus he signed Funchess. 

Furthermore, I'm 100% with Gute when he said that after the 2nd round area, it wasn't worth it to go WR because at that point you're likely not finding a guy who can make a difference in year 1, or even later. However, your position that a rookie WR can't substantially change a team hasn't held water over the last few years. Samuel literally changed the Niners offense in the second half of last year. A.J. Brown was the top WR for the Titans in year 1. D.K. Metcalf became a pretty significant contributor for Seattle down the stretch. And none of those guys were even 1st round picks, they were all 1st round talents that slipped to the 2nd for various reasons. 

Gute knew he had two bites at the apple on draft night for a WR, if he wanted one at all. Either way, the picks fell very poorly for GB when the top guys all went by 25 in the 1st round and then there was a second run on WRs in the early 2nd round. 

In any case, this question will likely be answered within the next 1-2 years. If Gute wanted Love as badly as he's saying, he's not riding the bench for 3-4 years. Rodgers is correct that this isn't the "Rodgers/Favre" scenario. Other than age, there are zero similarities. So if Love is Gute's guy, Rodgers will be gone either after this year or 2021 absent a SB ring or two.  

[vegas492]

13 minutes ago, incognito_man said:

Agreed. There's no way a team trades up in the first without knowing exactly who is available. Teams find out far sooner than tv viewers who was picked.

Goes back to @Outpost31 and his comment about possibly having 2 first round talents on the board.  GB needed to secure one.  And they did.

The article seems to tell a story that Love was the one they coveted most.  And that story relates to what we heard after the draft from multiple parties.

[Brat&Beer]

Quote

The familiar roar of Lambeau Field will be silent early in 2020.

The Packers announced Thursday they will not host fans at their venerated stadium for their first two home games due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.

"Lambeau Field will not be the same without our fans' energetic support in the stands," said Packers president and CEO Mark Murphy. "Given the extraordinary circumstances this year and the additional protocols in place, though, we determined it was best to take incremental steps to start the regular season. These two games will allow us to focus our attention on safely conducting games inside the stadium with all necessary participants.

"We are hopeful that we will be able to host fans for games later in the season, should conditions allow. We will continue to consult with community healthcare and public health officials on the pandemic conditions in our area. We ask our fans to continue to help by wearing masks and maintaining social distancing guidelines."

The announcement means the Packers will not have a chance to host fans at Lambeau Field until their Week 8 game against the Minnesota Vikings on Nov. 1.

And so it starts. 

[Cakeshoppe]

4 hours ago, Brat&Beer said:

And so it starts. 

Crowd noise projected to plummet by 4dB

Edited August 7, 2020 by Cakeshoppe

[Spartacus]

12 hours ago, Cakeshoppe said:

Crowd noise projected to plummet by 4dB

Crowd Noise? Never heard of her. 

[CWood21]

On 8/2/2020 at 7:54 PM, packfanfb said:

1. Sources said the Packers were in the mix during last year's trade deadline for a WR, suggesting Gutey knew/felt there was a problem at WR. 

I think Gute wanted a veteran WR to add to the mix, but he wasn't going to overpay for one.  And given what the Patriots gave up for Mohammed Sanu and the 49ers gave up for Emmanuel Sanders, I think it's safe to say that the price was too high for Gute.  And quite frankly, I would agree with him.

On 8/2/2020 at 7:54 PM, packfanfb said:

4. During the 1st round of the draft, there is speculation that when GB moved up to 26 (deal with Miami), the guy they wanted wasn't Love, but Brandon Aiyuk. Minn was on the clock at 25 and GB knew they weren't going WR (having just picked Jefferson at 22) and also knew Minn wouldn't be a trade candidate, so some think (I am one of them) that GB made the deal with Miami while Minn was still on the clock, with the thinking that Minn would make a pick, leaving Aiyuk as the pick for GB. Instead, SF jumped us, made the pick, and Gutey went with Love, later saying that he had intel that other teams wanted to move up to grab Love (although, after the draft there was no information that surfaced supporting that another team was attempting to move up for Love, so idk...). Still think Aiyuk was 1(A) at 26, because again, Gutey felt WR needed a play-maker after missing out on Sanders in FA. 

I think your timing on this one is off.  I watched the YouTube video from when the 49ers' selected Brandon Aiyuk, and the ticker hadn't changed to Green Bay yet, so I don't think a deal was struck with Miami at that point.  Or at least not one that was publicly announced yet.  I'm sure Green Bay did their obligatory phone call to the Vikings, but there was no real traction.  I think it's probably far more likely that this was another example of Gute willing to maneuver around to get his guy.  I'd imagine Love and Aiyuk were probably the last of his first round grades.

[CWood21]

On 8/4/2020 at 2:27 PM, packfanfb said:

Not using the article as proof of anything. That's the point. No one but Brian Gutekunst and few people around him know the truth about what happened on draft night and whether Love was the pick at 26 all along. Moreover, both could certainly be true. Gute absolutely may have wanted a certain WR at 26, and when he wasn't there he went with Love, which then directly led him to try to move up in the 2nd round to grab a WR; or he intentionally bypassed WR in round 1 because he wanted Love all along and then tried to move up in the 2nd. Each scenario is equally plausible. Again, there is ample evidence that Gute has acknowledged a need to add WR talent --> he went after the top FA WR on the market outside of Cooper (who was never leaving Dallas), plus he signed Funchess. 

The proof is in the pudding so to speak.  You don't trade up for someone you're lukewarm on, so the notion that the Packers "reluctantly" took Love seems outlandish at best.  He was a first round grade, and apparently felt highly enough of that they felt the need to trade up for him.  And if there's one thing you can credit Gute it's that he's proactive about getting his guy rather than waiting to see if their guy will fall whether it be Darnell Savage, Jaire Alexander, or now Jordan Love.  You can absolutely want to improve your WR position, and instead taking another position in the first round.  I think Gute was very deliberate when he refused to include his second or third round pick as part of a trade up.  In terms of the TVC, the Packers should have dealt their 3rd round pick to move up.  My guess is that Gute went sniffing to the teams in the 22-26 range offering their 4th to move up. Clearly nobody would bite on that until Miami agreed to the deal.  The Patriots moved out of the first round for a second and third round, and they came away with surplus value of a mid-7th.  The 49ers dealt their 4th AND 5th to move to 25, and the Vikings got shorted roughly the same amount the Dolphins did.  I would guess that the Vikings would have turned down the same offer from the Packers.

[Joe]

On 8/4/2020 at 1:55 PM, packfanfb said:

The first part isn't true in all respects. Positional value overall certainly favors QB, but it depends on the team, team needs to a degree, and where that team is in terms of SB contention. The Niners obviously traded up for a WR in round 1. 

As to the latter, you can pretty much put zero stock into a coach/GM reaction about a player or draft pick. What are they going to say other than say the guy they took was their No. 1 guy? 

I think he was referring to our specific situation. It was early, but QB was certainly on the table going into the draft and it made more sense than WR given the kind of offense MLF is trying to develop.