Mock Draft/Off-season Thread

[OttoGrahamsGhost]

18 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

And what did it get them? Having a couple elite talents isn’t what wins titles.

Back to the concept of overconfidence.  Just because you rate them highly doesn’t mean they are good.  I’d rather have two chances to find a good player than one.

I’d rather have Peppers and Njoku than Fournette, then and now.

“The future is uncertain, spend all draft capital now”.  Lol that’s some logic. And how the hell is making the first overall selection, 6 in the top 65 and using some portion of 9 figures “foregoing this year”???

What positions of need? Most folks are mocking a SS or a DE, both relatively solid positions for us, as well as a RB, which is fairly pointless considering our OC doesn’t run the football (and other reasons I’ve discussed plenty)

This is my ideal situation unless someone in the 20’s wants to offer up top 64 picks in BOTH 2019/2020.

I’m not clairvoyant and I can assure you there will be as there are every year. Isn’t Dorsey supposed to be the “real football guy” who spots “real football players” with his “eye for talent”?

So use those eyes and do it!

Let's just agree that neither of us will be happy after draft day.  I just don't see this going right, this situation seems too good to be true.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

25 minutes ago, OttoGrahamsGhost said:

Let's just agree that neither of us will be happy after draft day.  I just don't see this going right, this situation seems too good to be true.

Unless we do something crazy, I’ll be fine lol.

Barkley, Minkah, etc at 4 isn’t my PREFERENCE, but they are talented kids who can improve this team.

[OttoGrahamsGhost]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Unless we do something crazy, I’ll be fine lol.

Barkley, Minkah, etc at 4 isn’t my PREFERENCE, but they are talented kids who can improve this team.

Barkley would be my preference at 4 but trading back a few spots (still remaining in the top 10) and taking the best CB possible (not a safety that is being touted as a corner), would be probably the best possible move for the team. 

My expectations at this point are trade out of both positions and end up with Allen at QB 4 games into the season because the vet Hue selected either sucks or gets hurt.  I like to keep my expectations high. 

[TheeRealDeal]

On 1/18/2018 at 2:07 PM, Mind Character said:

I watched Kolton Miller and Orlando Brown intently.

Miller has terrible contact balance and his footwork is a mess. He also has a high anchor and no real punch.

Orlando brown lacks the feet and was protected by OU's "get the ball out quick" spread scheme. There were tons of instances where he got beat terribly and in a normal offense it would have been to devastating effect on the QB. Instead, the ball is thrown and he avoids the sack numbers. His pad level and pass set is terrible.

I've only seen 1 game of O'Neil so I'll trust your eval on him.

Cordy Glenn is def an option, but FA is devoid of LTs.

Could be right on Marcus Allen not lasting that long, but he will run a bad 40 time and has not a lot of ball production. If a player like Tedric Thompson can go in the 4th last year, Marcus Ball can go in the 4th-6th range.

Probably right on Edmunds but he may fall to the top of the 2nd or bottom of the first. The first pick in the second is always for a player that has 1st round ability that falls in the draft...he was the one I had doing so in this scenario.

 

FA is devoid of LTs and so is the draft IMO. I know Miller, O'Neill and Brown all have their flaws. Miller and O'Neill have the most athletic upside of them though. Desmond Harrison has great feet and athletic upside as well but he plays extremely high.

I did however watch more of Mike McGlinchey due to this thread here and I will say he is much better than I remember. I don't have a whole lot of time and I typically throw players in the waste basket if they look really bad for stretched and then I never return to watch them. I remember writing McGlinchey off after his terrible game against Bradley Chubb last season. I figure if he couldn't handle Chubb he was going to see much better in the NFL. I wish I had more time because I was wrong on McGlinchey. After a lot longer evaluation of his games I believe he is the ONLY franchise LT in this class especially if you want to run the football. He is a stud in the run game. He can pull, he can hook the edge, he stone walls when blocking down and is great at getting to the second level. Plays with good knee bend in comparison to the rest of the class. I have seen better pass protectors when you are talking franchise LT but he is not terrible as side from an awful outing against Chubb.

[TheeRealDeal]

13 hours ago, StewieRules said:

This is beyond depressing.  But honestly, the real issue isn't that the trade downs per say were a bad idea, the issue is that we are historically HORRID at evaluating talent.  I mean bad.  Really bad.  REEEAAAAAAALLY bad.  That, more than scheme or coach, is why we've sucked for nearly 20 years.  Hopefully now, with some acknowledged top personnel men now in place, this will finally change.  

I agree. That was the entire purpose of my post to prove it is not trading down that has hurt us it is being terrible at spotting talent that has killed the Browns.

[Mind Character]

13 minutes ago, TheeRealDeal said:

I remember writing McGlinchey off

This is exactly how I felt last year.

I wrote repeatedly how overrated McGlinchey was and how he wasn't this and wasn't that....how he was a mid second rounder etc...He looks like a completely different player in terms of polished technique, agility, and functional strength.

A coworker told me to check him out this year, and I was shocked and how discrepant my eval of him this year is compared to last year.

It reminded me that a lot of these guys really are in the embryonic stages of their football development and what they are now is not necessarily what they will be even 12 months from now.

I'll have to watch more of Harrison...I've been hearing his name buzz but haven't really watched him yet.

 

[dawgpound1816]

Resign Flash to a 4 year "Drug Free Contract". Let him know the Browns truly believe in him, and give him the reigns to his success. All bonuses after year 1 will be roster bonuses so they don't affect the cap if they cut or trade him before the league year begins.

FA:

Trumaine Johnson - Flourished in Williams system and will be a great addition to the Defense.

Terelle Pryor - Wants to play in Cleveland, adds system depth and has done well in Hues system.

Jimmy Graham - I've been wanting to put him in an offseason for the Browns, and he's the Red Zone Luxury Pick needed for a huge target in the Red Zone. He will cause single coverage mismatches between Gordon Grahams.

Kirk Cousins - Joe Thomas was talking on his Podcast about how the Browns need to get a Veteran Qb like Cousins. I feel Dorsey will do another Alex Smith Type Bridge with Cousins and try to get the rest of the team built up for success. Qb will not be pressed early in the Draft, and immediately brings the value of pick #1 to it's ceiling in trade value. 

At the end of FA....The Browns have The CB, The Bridge, WR depth, Red Zone Threat & High Ceiling Value for pick #1. 

THE DRAFT:

TRADE - The Browns trade #1 to the New York Jets for #6, #37, #103, 2019 1st & 2nd & 2020 1st & 4th.

#4 - Bradley Chubb - I love his motor, consistency, versatility, play recognition and equal edge ability against the run & pass. Bradley Chubb No Matter What. 5+ years of dominant bookends. 

#6 - Josh Jackson - Length, Rerouting ability, excellent ballskills, savvy awareness and not afraid to come up and make a play in the run game. Perfect fit opposite of Trumaine. 

TRADE - The Browns trade picks #35, #37, #103 & 2019 3rd Rd pick to Dallas for #19. 

#19 - Sony Michel - He won't be there after #20, and if you want that game changing mix of a bowling ball and bullet in 1....Go get him. His abilities as a receiver out of the backfield will cause mismatches. Possibly Clinton Portis part 2.

#33 - Taven Bryan - Taven has an insane 1st step and quickness for a big man. His ability to get up field fast wreaks havoc in the backfield. He's a perfect fit next to the likes of Danny Shelton. The DL would become deep, versatile and capable of staying fresh.

#60 - Equanimous St. Brown - Being at Notre Dame with no Qb, he still showed flashes of his ability. He's a big threat and he's fast. Good hands catcher and can wall off defenders with his big frame. Lack of elite production at Notre Dame, it will push him down towards late 2nd/early 3rd. Great value here. 

#65 - Kameron Kelly - Is a do it all FS/CB. He brings versatility to the Defense. He's had success at FS, and has transitioned to CB with ease. His ability to cover at the Safety position will give Williams options to manipulate coverages with confidence. 

#97 - Desmond Harrison - He got in trouble at Texas and kicked out of school for smoking weed, but his talent is hard to look passed at this point. Especially since he got cleaned up and could possibly be the best OT in this draft. 4th Rd pick, while being a 1st Rd talent. 

#119 - Bo Scarborough - Getting competition and value here only helps the growth of this team. He's a bruiser and well worth the pick for short yardage situations. Cheap value for a Lagarette Blount type back. Downhill runner who falls forward. Situational back that's needed on this team moving forward.

After the 4th Rd, you can plug in whomever you want.

I feel between the FAs picked up, the strong youth, the mixture between Vets and youth to grow together and the DL being able to attack, rotate and stay fresh all game will breed confidence behind them. No more being on the field 65% of games and being worn down due to inadequacies of not being able to make the plays when they count. Or having a Veteran Qb that understands the value of protecting the ball and not forcing it into walls instead of windows. A running game that will be utilized as an asset, not as a hinderence. The Browns will be in good position this year and great for years to come as a team, and value moving forward to be aggressive every year for whatever they want or need. 

[bruceb]

7 minutes ago, dawgpound1816 said:

Trumaine Johnson - Flourished in Williams system and will be a great addition to the Defense.

This ship has sailed.

7 minutes ago, dawgpound1816 said:

Terelle Pryor - Wants to play in Cleveland, adds system depth and has done well in Hues system.

Not completely against this.

8 minutes ago, dawgpound1816 said:

Jimmy Graham - I've been wanting to put him in an offseason for the Browns, and he's the Red Zone Luxury Pick needed for a huge target in the Red Zone. He will cause single coverage mismatches between Gordon Grahams.

This ship has sailed.

Wanted to draft him but can't say as I see him as value now.

8 minutes ago, dawgpound1816 said:

Kirk Cousins - Joe Thomas was talking on his Podcast about how the Browns need to get a Veteran Qb like Cousins. I feel Dorsey will do another Alex Smith Type Bridge with Cousins and try to get the rest of the team built up for success. Qb will not be pressed early in the Draft, and immediately brings the value of pick #1 to it's ceiling in trade value. 

Biggest mistake we possibly could make.

9 minutes ago, dawgpound1816 said:

#4 - Bradley Chubb - I love his motor, consistency, versatility, play recognition and equal edge ability against the run & pass. Bradley Chubb No Matter What. 5+ years of dominant bookends. 

Waste of the value of #4, imho.

All that being said, it doesn't get us the QBOTF, which in this draft would be a colossal failure. 

[MarkPrice25]

15 hours ago, bruceb said:

Biggest mistake we possibly could make.

All that being said, it doesn't get us the QBOTF, which in this draft would be a colossal failure. 

How so? Kirk Cousins is really good. Since 2015 (when he became the full time starter), he's averaged 66% CMP, 4392 yards, 27 TDs, 12 INTs, 7.8 Y/A and 11.6 Y/C per 16 games on average attempting 563 passes. That's really good. That's franchise QB-level. Consider these stat lines from the same time period (2015-2017):

Matthew Stafford: 66%, 4345 yds, 28 TDs, 11 INTs, 7.4 Y/A and 11.3 Y/C per 16 games on average attempting 21 more passes than Cousins.

Matt Ryan: 66%, 4543 yds, 26 TDs, 12 INTs, 8.1 Y/A and 12.1 Y/C per 16 games on average attempting 4 fewer passes than Cousins.

Philip Rivers: 63%, 4564 yds, 30 TDs, 15 INTs, 7.5 Y/A and 11.9 Y/C per 16 games on average attempting 42 more passes than Cousins.

Russell Wilson: 64%, 4075 yds, 30 TDs, 10 INTs, 7.7 Y/A and 12.0 Y/C per 16 games on average attempting 36 fewer passes than Cousins.

Derek Carr: 62%, 3972 yds, 29 TDs, 11 INTs, 6.9 Y/A and 11.1 Y/C per 16 games on average attempting 10 more passes than Cousins.

Andrew Luck: 60%, 4452 yds, 33 TDs, 18 INTs, 7.3 Y/A and 12.0 Y/C per 16 games on average attempting 46 more passes than Cousins.

Carson Wentz: 61%, 3905 yds, 27 TDs, 12 INTs, 6.8 Y/A and 11 Y/C per 16 games on average attempting 15 more passes than Cousins.

 

My point with all of this? Look at how similar all of their stats are. Kirk Cousins is right there with them all. So if you don't believe Kirk Cousins, given the right team (which we'll have plenty of cap space and draft picks to build) can win a Super Bowl, you must not think any of these guys can, either. To think otherwise, imo, is kind of biased. Signing Kirk Cousins is part of my ideal off-season. It could legitimately change the whole picture for us: it'd give us instant credibility and, depending on what we do with the rest of our cap space and draft picks, turn us into playoff contenders almost overnight. If Case Keenum, Blake Bortles and Nick Foles can reach the conference championship, Kirk Cousins is MORE than capable of taking us to the promised land.

[brownie man]

If we turn into Jacksonville yeah

not saying he can’t do it

but id rather have a 10 year stud 

we got the number 1 pick don’t grt cute 

[bosko1616]

I don’t understand with our recent history. Why signing Cousins/Smith AND drafting Darnold Number 1 is like a bad thing. If anything it’s the smartest thing we could do. With either of those guys we won’t gwt close to Number 1. Maybe 10-15 range. 

[MarkPrice25]

20 minutes ago, brownie man said:

If we turn into Jacksonville yeah

not saying he can’t do it

but id rather have a 10 year stud 

we got the number 1 pick don’t grt cute 

Everyone talks about Wentz, Carr, Stafford, Ryan, etc. Kirk Cousins played just as well as they did the past 3 years, yet he's just average? If you think Derek Carr or Matthew Stafford can realistically win the Super Bowl, how can you NOT think Kirk Cousins can? That's what's so baffling to me. Statistically Kirk Cousins is a top 10 QB.

[bruceb]

33 minutes ago, brownie man said:

but id rather have a 10 year stud 

we got the number 1 pick don’t grt cute 

x10

[bruceb]

14 minutes ago, MarkPrice25 said:

If you think Derek Carr or Matthew Stafford can realistically win the Super Bowl

I don't.

[bruceb]

22 minutes ago, bosko1616 said:

I don’t understand with our recent history. Why signing Cousins/Smith AND drafting Darnold Number 1 is like a bad thing. If anything it’s the smartest thing we could do.

Agree if it is Smith.

He would not be and would not expect to be a starter for more than 2-3 years, leaving us freedom to groom and insert our QBOTF at our leisure and sparing us increasing conflict over who should start and huge chunks of cap eaten up for 5 years.