Vixen Twins watch Wild Wolves and Loony Lynx (MN Sports Thread)

[vike daddy]

The NBA draft lottery isn’t all about luck — teams tank for a reason, of course — but the bouncing pingpong balls do play a big role. Good or bad bounces can mean the difference between drafting a future Hall of Famer and drafting just another mediocre non-star. Before Thursday night, the Minnesota Timberwolves had firmly fit into the “unlucky” category. For its 22 previous lottery picks,1 including picks it had traded away, Minnesota had never once landed a higher pick than the pre-lottery odds said it should — and the pick was lower than its suggested pre-draft slot 12 times (or more than 54 percent of the time).

That trend has made the T-Wolves the unluckiest franchise of the lottery era. But in 2020, their luck finally changed. Although Minnesota had the third-worst record in the NBA, it won the lottery Thursday, giving it the No. 1 overall pick in October’s draft. Not only was it the first time it had ever drafted above its pre-draft slot,2 but it represented a huge departure for a team that still has dropped 15 total slots below expected over the years — the most of any team in lottery history.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-nbas-unluckiest-lottery-team-finally-got-a-good-bounce/

[Ozzy]

On 8/21/2020 at 10:08 AM, Vikes_Bolts1228 said:

The only problem with Ball is you KNOW 100% he's gone 4 years later because his dad will want him playing in a big market.

Is it really worth drafting him if you know he's as good as gone, anyways? You'll probably get 2 years out of him as a starting regular (he's a long way from being a regular at only 180 pounds) and he'll be gone for a bigger market before his age 23 season.

At least with other guys, you can try to mold them into staying like KAT but Ball is as good as gone after year 4 and maybe sooner if his dad tries to force a trade.

True, but regardless if one takes Ball that makes Russell a SG and takes the ball out of his hands, that would be stupid.  Maybe LaMelo will be better than his brother but his brother was amazing on UCLA and kind of honestly sucks in the NBA.  Sure LaMelo played well in a pro league but it was a crap pro league.

Just the fact that these guys were raised by that father would scare me with all of them, that guy is a straight up nut job.  Why have any part in that, him being the dad is a massive negative to them as players.  I agree he would probably leave after his first contract, but still I say why get a PG when a real big time shooter is what the teams needs, and Edwards has a bomb three point shot and has super range.

 

On 8/21/2020 at 8:28 AM, Worm Guts said:

The problem with Edwards seems to be a Wiggins-like motor.  The vibe I'm getting is that Ball is the better overall prospect, although also a greater unknown.  Not that I've personally put any effort into scouting these guys.

Yes Edwards looks like Wiggins in his build and overall shape, but character wise not sure they are the same,  Edwards seems a little more animated and not as silent of a dude but will see.  Still say Ball with a dad like he has, that is a huge negative and Wiseman is a better prospect than Ball is I would say, Wiseman has KG like defensive ability and athletic ability.

[y*so*blu]

I've seen a few vixen twins in my time. 😜

Can't wait to see what the T-Wolves do with this pick. I remember how much my dad suffered rooting for that team.

[vikesfan89]

I know little enough about basketball that I would stay away from Ball

[JDBrocks]

Ball is easily the highest upside player in the draft. Comparing him to his brother is silly when they are completely different players. And saying Lonzo sucks tells me that either you haven’t watched him or you think that unless a player is a superstar that he sucks. 
 

I don’t think Ball is a good fit for MN, but it isn’t fair to trash him as a prospect because of his family. Yes, his dad will be a headache, and one that some teams will rightfully avoid, but Ball has range, handles, creativity, rare size. He reminds me of Shaun Livingston pre knee injury.

I personally hope that Ball falls to the Bulls. He would be an incredible threat next to LaVine in the back court, even though that might be a worse defensive pairing than Russel and Ball.

Edited August 23, 2020 by JDBrocks

[SemperFeist]

The biggest concern I have about Ball, and why I would avoid him, is that I question his ability to be the 3rd wheel behind Towns and Russell. 

The way he’s bounced around, and the way he’s seemingly tied to his father, I think you’re going to have a headache on your hands is he’s not “the guy”.

[TENINCH]

2 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

The biggest concern I have about Ball, and why I would avoid him, is that I question his ability to be the 3rd wheel behind Towns and Russell. 

The way he’s bounced around, and the way he’s seemingly tied to his father, I think you’re going to have a headache on your hands is he’s not “the guy”.

Some say you cant pass on a 6'7 guy. His father makes it easy to pass on him. I hope we can make a trade for Booker.

[Ozzy]

9 hours ago, JDBrocks said:

Ball is easily the highest upside player in the draft. Comparing him to his brother is silly when they are completely different players. And saying Lonzo sucks tells me that either you haven’t watched him or you think that unless a player is a superstar that he sucks. 
 

I don’t think Ball is a good fit for MN, but it isn’t fair to trash him as a prospect because of his family. Yes, his dad will be a headache, and one that some teams will rightfully avoid, but Ball has range, handles, creativity, rare size. He reminds me of Shaun Livingston pre knee injury.

I personally hope that Ball falls to the Bulls. He would be an incredible threat next to LaVine in the back court, even though that might be a worse defensive pairing than Russel and Ball.

In the right system yes LaMelo could be a fine pro player, Minnesota is not that place for him and like I said does not fit what they need unless they are going small ball with multiple ball handlers.  I disagree, I think the Bulls would be a bad place for him, you do know they have Cody White at PG and Dunn among others.  LaMelo I could see being a good fit in Cleveland maybe or better yet Detroit and possibly New York or the Hornets.  Sure he will be picked higher than that, if the Warriors take him it would be a big mistake to pass on Wiseman who is the better athlete and more rare prospect I would say.  But fact is if you think that he has  "range, handles, creativity and rare size...well Lonzo had all of those as well outside of the shooting, but arguably LaMelo can run cold as well with his shot and has awkward mechanics in his shot just like Lonzo.  Pretty sure no one drafted Lonzo thinking he will be average and he is exactly that, just average.  Is it good to be in the NBA sure but last time I checked a franchise does not want an average player when they pick them #2 overall and compared him to Jason Kidd or better coming into the draft.  Emmanuel Mudiay was what the 7th round pick overall, hyped because of his size for the position, handle and passing, but turns out he is not that tall, listed 6-5 in college and is apparently 6-3 but obviously he has not turned out in the NBA.  And LaMelo will never be as good as Luka is or Ben Simmons.  Sure Simmons cannot shoot but kid is a lights out defender and a great passer and ball handler.  I would take Ben Simmons and what he did on LSU over LaMelo and what he did in the NBL all day long.  Again NBL didn't Rick Rickert play there because he could not hack it in Europe, yeah not a great league with all the former pros over in China bet their league is even better.

 

LaMelo easily the highest upside player, bull**** on that one.  And how his parent has nothing to do with him as a man?  Not sure how that is the case, he is only the father and raised him.  Parents are wildly important to the character and development of any person, and to disregard them is simply lazy in terms of prospect evaluation.  Not to mention usually prospects as brothers, one brother is typically like the other brother.  They are very similar players I think, sure at this point LaMelo seems to have more upside but the hype around Ball coming out of UCLA was massive as well and obviously that is basically gone and will never come to fruition.

 

5 hours ago, TENINCH said:

Some say you cant pass on a 6'7 guy. His father makes it easy to pass on him. I hope we can make a trade for Booker.

No way the Suns do that, no way that would be absolutely insane.  Booker is way better than any of the players in this draft will be most likely.  And no clue why they could not pay him, sure they have the cap space to do so.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JDBrocks]

How many games have you watched? Your analysis is lazy and purely based on things you’ve read. 

i know the Bulls roster as a fan of the team. Coby White is not a PG. Dunn is a great 2nd PG, but not a starter, and couldn’t dream of having the ability that Ball does. 

it’s really obvious that you are hung up on his dad, which I acknowledged could be a problem in the wrong scenario. Every Reputable talent evaluator out there has Ball as the one of, if not the highest ceiling player in the draft.

Nice counter argument man, using stars to skirt the language filter because you don’t actually know what you are talking about. The brothers are not really alike at all. Lonzo wouldn’t dream of doing this in a game:

He’s not a perfect prospect, but you are talking about things that you clearly don’t know about.

lol... Wiseman can be a KG level defender but Ball is some scrub... ok.

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, JDBrocks said:

How many games have you watched? Your analysis is lazy and purely based on things you’ve read. 

i know the Bulls roster as a fan of the team. Coby White is not a PG. Dunn is a great 2nd PG, but not a starter, and couldn’t dream of having the ability that Ball does. 

it’s really obvious that you are hung up on his dad, which I acknowledged could be a problem in the wrong scenario. Every Reputable talent evaluator out there has Ball as the one of, if not the highest ceiling player in the draft.

Nice counter argument man, using stars to skirt the language filter because you don’t actually know what you are talking about. The brothers are not really alike at all. Lonzo wouldn’t dream of doing this in a game:

He’s not a perfect prospect, but you are talking about things that you clearly don’t know about.

lol... Wiseman can be a KG level defender but Ball is some scrub... ok.

Obviously you read more about prospects than I do, because I could care less where others have LaMelo ranked.  Don't know about the rankings because I do not read them, so who here reads what others say, I believe that would be you.  Ok have your opinion that is great.  

 

He hits a three, great and call him great, I do not for the reasons I said.  He is lazy as a defender at times, his shoot is straight jacked up like Lonzo's is, but lucky for him it is a little bit better.  Still has a odd release that is not centered, not to mention odd footwork and fades away on his jumpers a ton, oh and ontop of that his psycho father and ridiculously underachieving brother.  Had some amazing passes in a crap foreign league which apparently you do not even consider, I do not really care what he did in high school.  Ricky Rubio did make some amazing passes in a much better foreign league as well, and obviously that flashy passing did not make him some amazing player in the league, good but nothing great obviously.  Sure he looks great against guards who cannot defend him in the NBL, who cares if they are older they are not good players and will never be in the NBA.  Do that against Chris Paul, good luck.  

The draft class overall is weak, much weaker than last year so LaMelo is being hyped up and benefiting off the weak class not to mention the pandemic which completely eliminated the tournament and many games that would have been played, much less the combine.  Sure he is one of the better players, again so what the class is not as great as last year.  You take him over Ja?  **** no, Ja has better character, better handle, better shot, better passer and better athlete and clearly showed that this past year.  Same could be said for Trae Young or Collin Sexton to some degree.  And Coby White to me is a PG all the way with how amazing he is at penetrating, not to mention he is thin as crap.  Sure is some messed up offensive some might want him at SG but long term not sure that is his spot because not sure he can defend a strong 2 like Harden etc.  

 

t I have watched him play and followed his path to the NBA as it were.  Pretty much the oddest damn thing around. 

 

"On December 11, 2017, Ball signed with Prienai of the Lithuanian Basketball League (LKL) with his brother, LiAngelo.[50] Ball reportedly became the youngest American to ever sign a professional basketball contract."

"On May 4, 2018, Ball signed with the Los Angeles Ballers of the Junior Basketball Association (JBA), a new league created by his father as an alternative to college basketball, and was touted by the league as its "marquee player."  

 

Sure he looked ok in the last league he played in but again I say that league is **** competition and does not really show how good he actually is.  Would love to see him against someone that can actually play and sure NBA people will get that chance.  

[Ozzy]

More info on over hyped LaMelo Ball.

 

I did not know he only played 12 games in the NBL before he got hurt, so basically all this hype about him as a player with that little game experience.  Oh and the team he played for was the worst in the league.  They were 5 and 23.  

 

37.5% from the field, 25% from 3.  Yeah that sucks and cannot shoot well at all, oh and again it was a crap league with crap defenders.   Oh but he made a shot from mid court once, yay.  Oh and he is a crap defender himself, at least his brother is not that.  LaMelo potentially could be straight awful on defense and get destroyed night in and night out with how thin he is.  So yeah the Wolves should not take him #1 overall.   

So a potentially great passer that sucks at shooting, has poor shooting mechanics, a poor first step, a poor athlete overall and a crap defender.  Want a guy like that?  No.  

[JDBrocks]

Cool man. You went and looked up some stats and stories and reposted. I think we’re done here. 

[Worm Guts]

Lamelo taking a half court shot in the middle of game is kind of off-putting. 

[swede700]

58 minutes ago, Worm Guts said:

Lamelo taking a half court shot in the middle of game is kind of off-putting. 

You know what's always off-putting to me...obnoxious parents of athletes have always existed...but the really good athletes can drown out their obnoxious parents...see Venus and Serena Williams for the best examples.  The fact that we are still talking about Lavar Ball, instead of his sons, tells me everything I need to know about them.    

[JDBrocks]

2 minutes ago, swede700 said:

You know what's always off-putting to me...obnoxious parents of athletes have always existed...but the really good athletes can drown out their obnoxious parents...see Venus and Serena Williams for the best examples.  The fact that we are still talking about Lavar Ball, instead of his sons, tells me everything I need to know about them.    

That's quite the leap you're making.