NJ Raider Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Think the biggest difference between these signings and the ones gruden and al made first time around was that these are one year, prove it deals. They aren’t even guaranteed spots. The ones we signed in the past were for multiple years at a high price, which is why we had a terrible roster and were in cap hell for so long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliforniaKid7 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Good point @NightTrainLane, these vets know what they are at this point in their careers. If a guy like Leon Hall had a reputation of not being a mentor/sharing knowledge than he'd be a FA right now. Bottom line is competition is good, these aren't deals that in anyway impact our future ability to sign players or impact the way we draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 our CB unit sucked so bad... guys like Wright and Hall are actually upgrades to depth lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverNBlackFan Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Knowing the system and being a mentor only gets you so far when you can't run anymore, can't play special teams, and you are a injury prone. If Hall, Nelson and Martin are able to make this roster next year....we have some serious problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJ Raider Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 We are apparently looking at a lot of draftable dbs and gruden said he loves this rb class. Think those three are not only mentors but insurance policies if we don’t get the players we want at those positions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 26 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said: Knowing the system and being a mentor only gets you so far when you can't run anymore, can't play special teams, and you are a injury prone. If Hall, Nelson and Martin are able to make this roster next year....we have some serious problems Or they are overachieving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humble_Beast Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said: Or they are overachieving. guys looking too deep into this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dante9876 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 4 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: Or they are overachieving. Naw. Them making the roster pretty much means wasted draft picks and roster spots. Especially in Martin case. Hall not so much unless we draft a corner this year. Nelson the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakdb36 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 4 hours ago, SilverNBlackFan said: If Hall, Nelson and Martin are able to make this roster next year....we have some serious problems If they do, we already had a problem before they signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 1 hour ago, dante9876 said: Naw. Them making the roster pretty much means wasted draft picks and roster spots. Especially in Martin case. Hall not so much unless we draft a corner this year. Nelson the same. Hall making the roster wouldn't mean either of those things if he is the best man for the spot and is performing well. Most teams carry 6 corners if we have Conley Melvin Wright and 2 drafted guys and Hall I wouldn't be surprised or think we have major problems at all. But you guys can be dramatic about the vets if you want. Like you, I hope we have youth in the back field instead of Martin but if he does beat out a drafted back and the twins or just makes the team it's because of his performance which would have to be stellar to uproot Wash and Richard. Nelson, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darbsk Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 I actually like this FA class, makes sense to me and we seem to have a coherent plan. Nelson is a very savvy, hard working WR who I feel still has legs (see him run right past Earl Thomas for example) and will help Carr and Cooper https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s71QYD0P2n8 Melvin is a guy with upside and talent who should fit our scheme, I'm one of those who have seen enough of Conley to think he has elite talent and he has no real injury history before last year so am not too concerned with that. Gilchrist I really liked when he was at the Jets and think he is being underestimated, great teammate, good cover guy for a safety, versatile and should be fully recovered. Just the presence we need with two young malleable safeties in the locker room. Smith is a big, physical FB who suits what Gruden wants to do more than Jamize did and we basically gained a pick in the swap. Whitehead projects to me to be a productive SLB in our assumed 4-3 system. Was well regarded by all in Detroit and I happen to be think that Morrow showed great promise as a coverage LB so they dovetail nicely - especially if we bring back Bowman to captain the D. Carradine is a cheap base end to suit our scheme and will compete, we signed a couple ST players cheap and Ellis played decently last year after shedding a few pounds and is at least solid for average money. I really don't see any moves that hamstring us or tie us down long term as a few guys have said. There are some signings I don't really like such as Giacomini, Johnson and Martin but they're not preventing anyone else from getting drafted or usurping a talented young player and they're not Javon Walker type $$$$ either so if they don't make any impact they just disappear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 12 hours ago, Madleg81 said: People are assuming these vets are going to provide us depth and help groom the younger guys...that's assuming 1) They will even stay healthy long enough 2) What they have left is even better than what the younger guys have now and 3) Not every vet is an instant mentor becuase they've been around a while. I want us to add live bodies, not a bunch of patched up dudes who can break before the season even kicks off. Or worse, break during the season as they have been doing. Guys with injury history's only get hurt more often and recover much slower as they get older. I'm all for adding some experience and competition as long as they actually have the body left to be competitive at a high level. 100%. I love the "mentor" comments first off. A lot of vet (remember Jerry Rice) don't care to be mentors or help. Just trying to stay alive and collect money while they still can. The "depth" argument is also misguided. Because depth players on the roster play STs so how's that going to look? And the worry is, you end up keeping the experienced vet player over because of course with 10+ years experience he will be more polished than a low end rookie. And you don't develop a player who might have needed a little time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Look.... I feel like people are forgetting Gruden's past history. Part of his downfall in Tampa was building a team and hanging onto veteran players past their expiration dates. It was a problem and I personally don't care to ignore it. It was a concern for some when he was hired to come back. They didn't draft well and get younger and it bit them. They held onto aging vets on their last legs and their team suffered for it. Same thing in Oakland. His team he built met father time and turned to dust in the blink of an eye. So you can all walk the company line of "mentorship", "system familiarity", "depth", etc.... but don't be blind to history! Gruden is kind of known for building teams and hanging onto aging players to his determent. It's at least something to keep an eye on as the 53 man roster is built out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BABYLON 5 Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Let's not forget when we had a lot of cap space for 3 years free agents choose to go elsewhere or use us for leverage that happen a lot these pass years,cap space or not it's not a surprise we don't make a slash in free agency players just rather play for other teams Gruden bring all his old coaching buddy's back and the coaches bring all there old players ,Reggie McKenzie still wants every player that the Packers release lol Its like NFL reunion party. I think we all have our concerns on the direction the team is headed in I just hopes it works.These are only one year deals and have of them most likely won't even make the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackinBlack Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Look.... I feel like people are forgetting Gruden's past history. Part of his downfall in Tampa was building a team and hanging onto veteran players past their expiration dates. It was a problem and I personally don't care to ignore it. It was a concern for some when he was hired to come back. They didn't draft well and get younger and it bit them. They held onto aging vets on their last legs and their team suffered for it. Same thing in Oakland. His team he built met father time and turned to dust in the blink of an eye. So you can all walk the company line of "mentorship", "system familiarity", "depth", etc.... but don't be blind to history! Gruden is kind of known for building teams and hanging onto aging players to his determent. It's at least something to keep an eye on as the 53 man roster is built out I do agree that Gruden likes his older, vet players. Thankfully, we are young at 2 of the most important positions, QB nd DE. With how crazy contracts are getting, you either mortgage your future to sign the big names, or you have to get creative in FA. This season we arent winning the SB regardless, so i have no problem with getting some older guys for cheap. Would signing Tremain Johnson have put us over the top? nope. Same as Sheldon Richardson, Suh, or Wilkerson. We should be able to compete this year, and I do think Playoffs are very possible. But lets not act like this was a team that was 1 or 2 pieces from a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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