2019 Draft Talk

[NoDakViking]

Watching the Colts in the playoffs really makes me want to go OL rounds 1 and 2.  Certainly helps to pick the right ones .

[RpMc]

24 minutes ago, NoDakViking said:

Watching the Colts in the playoffs really makes me want to go OL rounds 1 and 2.  Certainly helps to pick the right ones .

Easy to do when you’ve got 4 top 60 picks!

[NoDakViking]

14 minutes ago, RpMc said:

Easy to do when you’ve got 4 top 60 picks!

True.  But I think we have less holes than them at this time last year

[joeybrowner47]

I haven’t heard anyone offer up this scenario yet... Pat Elflein was a damn good guard in college and ended up switching to center as a necessity for Ohio State. What if we drafted a center ala Dalton Risner and moved Elflein back to guard. It could shore up two positions for the price of one draft pick. Thoughts?

[SemperFeist]

Elflein is a better center than guard. Regardless, it doesn’t matter where he plays, Elflein simply needs to get stronger. 

[joeybrowner47]

1 minute ago, SemperFeist said:

Elflein is a better center than guard. Regardless, it doesn’t matter where he plays, Elflein simply needs to get stronger. 

And I think he will with a full off season to train while healthy unlike last offseason.. people forget what a great rookie year he had

[vikestyle]

As much as we need OL, I don't want to panic and take one just for the sake of taking one. If the top OL are gone at our pick, that probably means that a stud at another position would drop right into our lap. I'd rather get a top tier DT, LB, DE, or TE than make a huge reach. Remember when we were a QB away and took Christian Ponder in one of the strongest first rounds in recent memory?

Obviously missing on a guard would have less of a fallout than that, but it's the same idea.

[NoDakViking]

6 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

As much as we need OL, I don't want to panic and take one just for the sake of taking one. If the top OL are gone at our pick, that probably means that a stud at another position would drop right into our lap. I'd rather get a top tier DT, LB, DE, or TE than make a huge reach. Remember when we were a QB away and took Christian Ponder in one of the strongest first rounds in recent memory?

Obviously missing on a guard would have less of a fallout than that, but it's the same idea.

I kinda had this thought.  It makes me cringe to imagine them taking OL with our first two picks and neither are any good.

[SemperFeist]

17 minutes ago, vikestyle said:

As much as we need OL, I don't want to panic and take one just for the sake of taking one. If the top OL are gone at our pick, that probably means that a stud at another position would drop right into our lap. I'd rather get a top tier DT, LB, DE, or TE than make a huge reach. Remember when we were a QB away and took Christian Ponder in one of the strongest first rounds in recent memory?

Obviously missing on a guard would have less of a fallout than that, but it's the same idea.

The Vikings followed this approach last year, and missed out on some linemen who would have been big difference makers. 

In a vacuum Hughes was a better player than a lot of available players, but was he the best player to help this team? The Vikings had the 3rd best passing defense, 4th best defense overall, without Hughes for the majority of it. 

Using PFF’s grading, Will Hernandez was ranked the 18th best guard among guards who played 500 snaps on the season. Neither Compton or Remmers we’re among the top 35. How much more of an impact would a player like Hernandez have had along the o-line? What would that have meant for Cousins? Or the run game? 

James Daniels (PFF’s 26th guard) is another lineman that made a big difference for his team, and would have likely made a big difference for the Vikings.

[vikestyle]

3 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

The Vikings followed this approach last year, and missed out on some linemen who would have been big difference makers. 

In a vacuum Hughes was a better player than a lot of available players, but was he the best player to help this team? The Vikings had the 3rd best passing defense, 4th best defense overall, without Hughes for the majority of it. 

Using PFF’s grading, Will Hernandez was ranked the 18th best guard among guards who played 500 snaps on the season. Neither Compton or Remmers we’re among the top 35. How much more of an impact would a player like Hernandez have had along the o-line? What would that have meant for Cousins? Or the run game? 

James Daniels (PFF’s 26th guard) is another lineman that made a big difference for his team, and would have likely made a big difference for the Vikings.

Yeah and Spielman kind of admitted they got caught with their pants down because they didn't see the run on interior OL coming. The original hypothetical, however, was that there were no "worthwhile" OL available at our pick. I don't want to reach for the sake of reaching.

Hindsight is 20/20. There have been a lot of great OL we missed on, but we've also built a pretty darn good roster through drafting non-OL. Was Treadwell a good pick looking back? No, but the next 3 OL taken were Josh Garnett, Germain Ifedi, and Jason Spriggs. I'll call that a wash. In 2017 we got Elflein who can hopefully become a good player. 

It seems like the league is finally catching up in valuing interior OL, so we will have to take one early if we want one at the top of our board, but if there isn't one that we value as a first rounder then I don't want to take one in the first round.

[Duluther]

4 hours ago, NoDakViking said:

Watching the Colts in the playoffs really makes me want to go OL rounds 1 and 2.  Certainly helps to pick the right ones .

And now Dallas advances, the team most notorious for prioritizing OLine.

[vikingsrule]

1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

The Vikings followed this approach last year, and missed out on some linemen who would have been big difference makers. 

In a vacuum Hughes was a better player than a lot of available players, but was he the best player to help this team? The Vikings had the 3rd best passing defense, 4th best defense overall, without Hughes for the majority of it. 

Using PFF’s grading, Will Hernandez was ranked the 18th best guard among guards who played 500 snaps on the season. Neither Compton or Remmers we’re among the top 35. How much more of an impact would a player like Hernandez have had along the o-line? What would that have meant for Cousins? Or the run game? 

James Daniels (PFF’s 26th guard) is another lineman that made a big difference for his team, and would have likely made a big difference for the Vikings.

Have to think though, if the Vikes did go OG in round one, O'Neill probably isn't the pick in round two.

Sure, Remmers stays at RT if an OG is selected. Fast forward to now, you're not getting $5 million in cap relief by cutting Remmers because you don't have a Tackle to replace him. 

If O'Neill gets stronger, his potential may be as good as anyone Mn could have had in round one.

[PrplChilPill]

2 hours ago, NoDakViking said:

I kinda had this thought.  It makes me cringe to imagine them taking OL with our first two picks and neither are any good.

If you don't trust the scouts to find a starting OL at pick 18, we have bigger problems....

[ArcticNorseman]

Just some general thoughts on guys I've watched in Bowl games, and I'm not locking in on any given O-line prospects yet.  I'll do that as the all-star games and combine conclude.  

There are a couple intriguing skill players, starting with Hakiem Butler, WR from Iowa State -- that guy's huge . . . I'm not sure he showed up in every game this year, but if he runs fast and catches at the combine, he'll go no later than Rd 2.  Another WR I don't know has declared or not is Lil Jordan Humphries from TX . . . I liked what he showed on New Year's Day.  

As for RB, James Williams from WZZU declared and he'd be a good back-up to Cook.  He's not as fast as Cook, but he catches well and runs tough.  

For interior O-line, every year, there are guys touted as "the next decade anchor."  Have to say, Quentin Nelson, Dave DeCastro, and Lamp/Feeny have put their team's O-lines on the map.  The Vikes were spoiled from the late '80s through 2011 with perennial All-Pro types at OG.  Need to get back to that.  We don't have Hutch at LG, we need someone like him, like Nelson and DeCastro.  We need an ox at RG.  Remmers just didn't get there, even though he had some good games, he's not anchoring like he needed to.  Maybe part of that was the loss of Sparano, maybe part of it was the lack of Elflein the first few games.  In any event, getting Isidora, Easton, and Collins back may be enough, but I think drafting high at O Line will yield better candidates.  

 

[meixdaddy_10]

1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

The Vikings followed this approach last year, and missed out on some linemen who would have been big difference makers. 

In a vacuum Hughes was a better player than a lot of available players, but was he the best player to help this team? The Vikings had the 3rd best passing defense, 4th best defense overall, without Hughes for the majority of it. 

Using PFF’s grading, Will Hernandez was ranked the 18th best guard among guards who played 500 snaps on the season. Neither Compton or Remmers we’re among the top 35. How much more of an impact would a player like Hernandez have had along the o-line? What would that have meant for Cousins? Or the run game? 

James Daniels (PFF’s 26th guard) is another lineman that made a big difference for his team, and would have likely made a big difference for the Vikings.

I agree with what the thought process is here to an extent. And I will admit that i was one of the people that was banging the table hard for Hernandez or someone of that nature in RD1. I was ok with the Hughes pick then, but really wanted an OL. Though we did end up grabbing one in RD 2 who we all thought was a bit raw. So at first it seemed like a busted draft.

But I am 100% on board with the way it played out. O'Neill looks to be a very solid Tackle going forward and Hughes looked pretty good before going down with injury. And with how often our DBs are hurt you can never really have too many good ones. I love our CBs and depth going into next year and i love what we have in O'Neill.

And that right there is the biggest issue i have with everyone whining about taking anyone other than who we took last year. If we take Hernandez in RD1 the chances of us taking Oneill in RD 2 are pretty slim. Who do we even take there? DB Carlton Davis? DE Arden Key? DT Derrick Nnadi? DE Sam Hubbard? None of the options in RD3 or RD4 after we took Oneill really excite me. So the opportunity cost of that decision is likely losing out on our CB depth and a centerpiece to our O-Line for years to come. 

 

The best possible outcome could have happened and we could have taken both Hernandez and O'Neill. How exciting would that have been? But what team looking to go on a Super Bowl run wants 2 rookies possibly starting on their OL besides Indy? Sorry, but Cousins isnt Andrew Luck and cant make up for any OL deficiencies the way Luck can. We were witness to that all year.