Leader Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 Just now, Golfman said: look at Keenum's numbers last year and ask, is Cousins going to duplicate that? Thats not what I said. They're both 30 and Cousins has achieved more in his CAREER than Keenum. You want to focus on one year and declare Keenum better? I'm saying career production counts more. To my knowledge, neither has had a season ending (or shortening) injury - so their talents either got them on the field or didnt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howler Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Leader said: Says who (besides you of course....). I like Zimmer well enough - but whats the basis for this comment? He takes away the outer hashes which the packers system likes to throw to. Rodgers is slowed down by Zimmer (his rating drops off 15+ pts against Zimmer defenses). I just don't expect McCarthy to successfully adapt and he's also limited by personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Leader said: Thats not what I said. They're both 30 and Cousins has achieved more in his CAREER than Keenum. You want to focus on one year and declare Keenum better? I'm saying career production counts more. To my knowledge, neither has had a season ending (or shortening) injury - so their talents either got them on the field or didnt. No, what I am stating is Cousins isn't going to have the kind of year Keenum did therefore, he's a downgrade at QB. Keenum had a career year, no argument. Cousins is going to be a downgrade from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 1 minute ago, Golfman said: No, what I am stating is Cousins isn't going to have the kind of year Keenum did therefore, he's a downgrade at QB. Keenum had a career year, no argument. Cousins is going to be a downgrade from that. Okay. Maybe. Could be. Dont really care how he compares to Keenum. I'm not a Cousins fan - but dont take him as lightly as some others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeightTheVillain Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 13 minutes ago, Howler said: He takes away the outer hashes which the packers system likes to throw to. Rodgers is slowed down by Zimmer (his rating drops off 15+ pts against Zimmer defenses). I just don't expect McCarthy to successfully adapt and he's also limited by personnel. And yet all other teams average 18.3 ppg against Zimmer defenses while Mac and the Pack average 22 ppg. And that is counting a 0 point Brett Hundley effort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 17 minutes ago, Golfman said: look at Keenum's numbers last year and ask, is Cousins going to duplicate that? That’s what I’ve been saying all off season. Last year he had 7 INTs and 1 fumble Over the last 3 seasons, Cousins averages 12 ints and 10 fumbles. Keenum had a real good season last year that Idt Kirk can replicate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 9 minutes ago, pollino14 said: That’s what I’ve been saying all off season. Last year he had 7 INTs and 1 fumble Over the last 3 seasons, Cousins averages 12 ints and 10 fumbles. Keenum had a real good season last year that Idt Kirk can replicate I don't care either way, only time will tell, but Cousins supporting cast was also horrible. You can't compare directly like that. Keenum may have averaged 25 ints and 15 fumbles on those teams. We'll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 7 minutes ago, cannondale said: I don't care either way, only time will tell, but Cousins supporting cast was also horrible. You can't compare directly like that. Keenum may have averaged 25 ints and 15 fumbles on those teams. We'll never know. This is just inaccurate! He had good receivers, a good running back and very good offensive line for most of his time in Washington. You can't be rewriting history to make your story better. Cousins is not a Pro-Bowl guy. He's just above a JAG. Get pressure on him and he'll put it on the ground and throw some picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 54 minutes ago, cannondale said: I don't care either way, only time will tell, but Cousins supporting cast was also horrible. You can't compare directly like that. Keenum may have averaged 25 ints and 15 fumbles on those teams. We'll never know. Lol. One of the better receiving backs, one of the better receiving tight ends, one of the better offensive lines, one of the better offensive head coaches and coordinators for most of his career in Washington and his supporting cast wasn't great? I don't think there's one starting offensive lineman the Vikings wouldn't take over their own right now and the Redskins had a horrible supporting cast? I want to know why everyone thinks the Redskins had a horrible offense with the talent they have on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pollino14 Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 58 minutes ago, cannondale said: I don't care either way, only time will tell, but Cousins supporting cast was also horrible. You can't compare directly like that. Keenum may have averaged 25 ints and 15 fumbles on those teams. We'll never know. Ya, Idt his squads were ‘horrible’ at all. In fact, Wash prob had a better line than Minny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 @Golfman - you targeted Keenums 2017 stats and asked if Cousins could match them. They're not overwhelming IMO and I guess the answer to your question would have to be "yes" - barring injury Cousins will exceed Keenums 2017 numbers because he's done it for each of the last three years. http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15168/case-keenum http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins @pollino14 - cited the last three years in your comment. Here are the stats for those years: Cousins - 48 games / 13,176 yds / 81 TDs / 36 Ints / 14 fumbles (thats not an average of 10 fumbles a year). Keenum - 31 games / 12,324 yds / 35 TDs / 19 Ints / 7 fumbles I dont see where Cousins comes out looking like a bum (my word choice, not yours) - especially in direct comparison to Keenum. Is Cousins the end all be all? No. Am I a fan? No. Is he worth his contract? Not in my opinion (but the market set the price and somebody was willing to pay it). Wild card add on: Far back as I can remember, Cousins played for a WASH team and organization that wasnt "sold" on him. Could never get behind him. Never decide if he was worth their future. Okay - I'm not saying they were right or wrong - but that has an effect on a player. Sure, Cousins was becoming a certified millionaire cashing in all those franchise tag salaries - but he had somebody over his shoulder all the time. Next screw up - he could be pulled. NOW - he's got a team and organization that wants him. Made him their future. Will that turn Cousins into the next AR? No. Could he perform better? Yes. I think he could. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 2 hours ago, SpeightTheVillain said: Mac is 4-4 against Zimmer. Dead even - not a Zimmer advantage. So he’d be 4-2 with Rodgers too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Packerraymond Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Outpost31 said: Lol. One of the better receiving backs, one of the better receiving tight ends, one of the better offensive lines, one of the better offensive head coaches and coordinators for most of his career in Washington and his supporting cast wasn't great? I don't think there's one starting offensive lineman the Vikings wouldn't take over their own right now and the Redskins had a horrible supporting cast? I want to know why everyone thinks the Redskins had a horrible offense with the talent they have on offense. It's certainly below average. Their RB position has sucked, WRs mediocre at best and Reed is healthy once in a blue moon. Their OL is much stronger than Minny had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 46 minutes ago, Leader said: @Golfman - you targeted Keenums 2017 stats and asked if Cousins could match them. They're not overwhelming IMO and I guess the answer to your question would have to be "yes" - barring injury Cousins will exceed Keenums 2017 numbers because he's done it for each of the last three years. http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/15168/case-keenum http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14880/kirk-cousins @pollino14 - cited the last three years in your comment. Here are the stats for those years: Cousins - 48 games / 13,176 yds / 81 TDs / 36 Ints / 14 fumbles (thats not an average of 10 fumbles a year). Keenum - 31 games / 12,324 yds / 35 TDs / 19 Ints / 7 fumbles I dont see where Cousins comes out looking like a bum (my word choice, not yours) - especially in direct comparison to Keenum. Is Cousins the end all be all? No. Am I a fan? No. Is he worth his contract? Not in my opinion (but the market set the price and somebody was willing to pay it). Pretty much what I said when they signed Cousins. He is going to reproduce what Keenum did last season for the next 3-5 years. Last season, Keenum was good enough to get the team to the NFCC. All else stays the same, Cousins gives the Vikings a golden opportunity for the next handful of years. The Vikings are good. We can have much better discussions when we admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanedorf Posted September 11, 2018 Share Posted September 11, 2018 22 minutes ago, ThatJerkDave said: The Vikings are good. We can have much better discussions when we admit that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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