Top 10 General Managers

[KellChippy]

28 minutes ago, Elky said:

BB the HC doesn't keep us out of cap hell or get productive players on efficient deals.

And having Colbert over BB is a joke.

Yeah,  I have a hard time putting anyone over BB. He typically makes the right choice when letting players walk. At times his rosters lack top end talent but they’re  rarely weak in any area.  Their versatility makes them capable of handling any given situation. BB the GM also helps out BB the coach.

[daineraider]

Mr Bill

Snead

Roseman

Spielman

 

[Ketchup]

1 hour ago, Elky said:

BB the HC doesn't keep us out of cap hell or get productive players on efficient deals.

And having Colbert over BB is a joke.

What exactly are Bill’s duties? Does anyone really even know for sure? I know GB has a separate guy that handles the contracts and such. I mean really, fans don’t know jack about what these GM’s do and don’t do. On the surface though, idk how it’s not BB and everyone else. The way Bill has run and coached his teams throughout the years has been nothing short of special. 

[JAF-N72EX]

12 hours ago, BAConrad said:

Lol I just had to say something about this statement because its so comically egregious.

Snead I suppose has to "prove" himself by winning a SB, but hes done as good a job with that Rams team the last few years as anyone in the league sans Roseman (Howie gets the nod simply because of last year, but I think Snead will get his ring this time). 

So youd prefer Reid, who isnt even actually a GM like Belichick and never has been? Who has never won a SB? Okay. Flawed logic there.

Roseman essentially had a great roster in place when Chip Kelly came in. And then Chip, via what we can only assume was blackmailing of Lurie our owner, banished Roseman (literally he moved his office to an entirely different building in the way back of the complex), and proceeded to take that roster and gut it entirely by getting rid of DeSean, Maclin, Shady McCoy, etc and replacing them with Sam Bradford, DeMarco Murray, Kiko Alonso, Ryan Mathews......And when that failed miserably and Howie was rightfully given back his throne, he immediately purged the roster of any Chip Kelly player via savvy trades/maneuvering. He used those guys to trade for what amounted to being the pick that got us Wentz and then was smart enough to go out pluck Nick Foles out of whatever gutter he was preaching out of.

TWO YEARS removed from having an almost entirely different roster than the one we do now....we won a Super Bowl. With our starting QB, LT, and MLB all out for the season lol. People rightfully say Pederson had one of the greatest ever seasons from a head coach weve ever seen, but often fail to bring up that Roseman pulled off one of the greatest roster builds ever and did it in just 2 years. 

So Im not sure what Roseman has to do to "prove" himself to be better than guys like Elway or Schneider even. Schneider WAS one of the best GMs but he ruined that when he just went full on idiot mode the last couple years by turning Seattle into arguably the least talented 53 man roster in the league minus QB. And Elway is laughably overrated. He won a SB because he was able to just max out the cap completely and sign a ton of veteran FAs...A strategy that is fine if you want one SB followed by years of mediocrity and failed 1st round QBs like Paxton Lynch. 

And how are Snead and Roseman "unproven" while Spielman and Dimitroff aren't? Literally one guy has a ring in that group and it isnt the latter two names. (And Snead, IMO, is going to be the next one to get a ring).

Im sorry but Howie Roseman and Les Snead are simply just running circles around the rest of the league/GMs. They are two of the best there are in the business. Not arguably. Pretty much as close to being a fact as it can be.

 

 

Here's some flawed logic for you.Simply comparing Roseman to Schnieder. 

Since Schnieder was hired 8 years ago to take over a team with only 9 wins combined in the prior 2 seasons this is what he has helped build;

--Was found to be the best-drafting GM in the past 20 years
--4 Division titles
--5 consecutive Playoff appearances and 6 total (T-3rd most since 2010)
--Two consecutive SB appearences
--Became only the 6th team in the league with 2 SB apperances during ANY 8 year stretch since the alignment.
--4th most wins in the league.
--Found a franchise QB
--Built one of the best dynasties in recent history
--Built one of the best defenses of all-time
 

Now if you wanna credit Carrol with his part in all of this, I agree, because it takes more than just one hand to accomplish what Seattle has and still doesn't take anything away from Schiender at all. There's a reason why Carrol wanted him to stay.

Meanwhile, Roseman's arrow may be pointing up but his resume does not even compare to Schneider's and until he shows consistency I couldn't care less what he does in his office at Lot B building C in any complex. 

[JAF-N72EX]

8 hours ago, Ketchup said:

What exactly are Bill’s duties? Does anyone really even know for sure? I know GB has a separate guy that handles the contracts and such. I mean really, fans don’t know jack about what these GM’s do and don’t do. On the surface though, idk how it’s not BB and everyone else. The way Bill has run and coached his teams throughout the years has been nothing short of special. 

I agree with this point and the same could be said for head coaches as well to some degree. While us arm chair coaches can sit here and guess....none of us truly know what their job descriptions really entail.  

[Bolts223]

On 9/10/2018 at 5:04 PM, CP3MVP said:

BB  as General Manager has built 5 Super Bowl championship teams and 3 other AFC champions. He’s number one until he retires. Having guys who have never built title teams over him is laughable. 

That's a little bit of a half truth.

Bill Belichick as a head coach has done all of those things. Sometimes I feel like Belichick the HC bails out Belichick the GM.

[BAConrad]

3 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Here's some flawed logic for you.Simply comparing Roseman to Schnieder. 

Since Schnieder was hired 8 years ago to take over a team with only 9 wins combined in the prior 2 seasons this is what he has helped build;

--Was found to be the best-drafting GM in the past 20 years
--4 Division titles
--5 consecutive Playoff appearances and 6 total (T-3rd most since 2010)
--Two consecutive SB appearences
--Became only the 6th team in the league with 2 SB apperances during ANY 8 year stretch since the alignment.
--4th most wins in the league.
--Found a franchise QB
--Built one of the best dynasties in recent history
--Built one of the best defenses of all-time
 

Now if you wanna credit Carrol with his part in all of this, I agree, because it takes more than just one hand to accomplish what Seattle has and still doesn't take anything away from Schiender at all. There's a reason why Carrol wanted him to stay.

Meanwhile, Roseman's arrow may be pointing up but his resume does not even compare to Schneider's and until he shows consistency I couldn't care less what he does in his office at Lot B building C in any complex. 

 You conveniently left out how Schneider went on to (almost) single handedly destroyed that Seattle team. They won a Superbowl, which was huge. But regardless, he didnt create a dynasty. He could have, but he failed to do so because he has just made mind numbingly dumb moves.  

He went on to completely whiff on big trades for the likes of Percy Harvin and Graham ...He has not been able to land free agents like he had before (ie Bennett, Avril). He had the two great drafts in 2012 and 2013 (iirc)...but since then a case could be made that he has been pretty awful at drafting. Like bottom dweller kind of bad. Before you come at me with a handful of draft picks he has made lately Ill save you the time. Every team hits on some. But he for some reason just cannot draft offense at all basically anywhere (RW doesnt count rn). Baldwin worked out. ?. He has managed to provide his elite QB with the terrible OL that theyve had. He drafted Paul Richardson at WR, who I liked, only to let him leave in FA right as he is set to break out,  because of $. But then he decides to reward Tyler Lockett with 3 yrs/33 million (higher AAV and more guaranteed than Richardson ?). What has Lockett done to deserve to even make more than 2 million a season? We all know about their RB situation and the Penny debacle. 

If you take the roster without Wilson and rank it amongst the rest of the league,  it is so easily bottom 5 in the entire NFL.

If we are talking about Schneider, say, 3 years ago? Sure. But how can you say that a GM who, 5 years ago did a terrific job but has been one of the worst in the league the most recent years, is right now one of THE best? His 2013 SB doesnt mean squat right NOW due to how poorly he has run that team these last few years.  

He has not been consistent actually at all. If he bad been, then Seattle would still be a SB contender. Absolutely no reason they shouldn't be with RW as their QB. But Schneider has managed to crap the bed

[lancerman]

On 9/10/2018 at 7:54 PM, Bobikus said:

That's because BB has GM benefits a lot from having BB as head coach.

BB the coach benefits a lot from having BB as GM

BB the coach benefits a lot from having Tom Brady as QB

BB the GM benefits a lot from having Tom Brady the QB

Tom Brady the QB benefits a lot from having BB the coach

There's always a golden carrot excuse. The dude's been known for years for knowing when to cut players at the right time, getting key pieces that fit his system on affordable contracts and restocking his team draft wise to the point of always being competitive at a high level. Yes he has an advantage in that he's also the coach so he knows exactly what he is acquiring a player for. He's still easily been the best team builder over the last 20 years.

[JAF-N72EX]

13 minutes ago, BAConrad said:

 You conveniently left out how Schneider went on to (almost) single handedly destroyed that Seattle team. They won a Superbowl, which was huge. 

Destroyed a Seattle team LOL? When? If it it so easy for team to be a SB contender for 5-6 years straight....how come Roseman and 95% of the other GM's don't have that on thier resume?

21 minutes ago, BAConrad said:

he didnt create a dynasty.

I would LOVE to hear your definition of a dynasty?

[JAF-N72EX]

You know what happens when teams get so successful for so long? They lose players. Whether that is due to age, contracts, injuries, etc......it always happens. That's the downfall for being successful. Not every team are the Patriots with a coach who can plug and play.That's not how the NFL works.

[Bobikus]

6 hours ago, lancerman said:

There's always a golden carrot excuse.

Nah.  Obviously the each position is helped by other people being good, but I've been pretty consistent that BB (as the HC) is by faaaaar the biggest component of that success and BB the GM and Brady benefit a lot more from BB the HC than vice versa.

[Rockice_8]

GM is such a volatile job.  Guys like Ozzie were amazing and now he is drafting bust WR's in round 1.  Schiender was great when he found Wilson and some late talent on defense.  Now the D is falling apart, he had to pay his QB and the team is suffering.  He also trade a 2nd rounder to my Jets for a 1 year rental of Richardson.  Are theses guys no longer good GM's, probably still the same guys but they haven't been great lately due to circumstances with their QB's and poor drafting.

BB is such a terrible GM for the most part.  His 1st rounders are largely busts and the overall team he has is nowhere near the tops in terms of talent.  Got to give him credit though because he found TB who is an all time great.  I think he should get more credit for his coaching and TB then his GM skills but whatever he's doing it's working so who am I to judge.

Guys like Caldwell in Jac have been drafting at the top of round 1 for what seems like a decade.  Not sure how long he specifically has been drafting in Jac but Fournette and Bortles have been largely underwhelming.  He built a nice defense but until he can get an offense to compliment the D they won't be winning the superbowl.  Need to see more before I can give him credit for drafting players high in round 1.  

Others like Roseman and Snead did a nice job hitting on their QB's and their early picks as well as hitting FA and the trade market hard to build a team around a cheap QB.  True test will see if they can sustain it once those QB contracts come due.  They also did a great job picking their coaches which helps them look good.

I really like what Spielman did in MIN thus far and Dimitroff too in ATL.  They have the high QB salary and have been able to build around them nicely.

Top guys IMO in no order Rosemen, Snead, Spielman, BB (helped out more so by his ability to coach though), and Dimitroff

Elway, Loomis, Caldwell are largely overrated IMO.

[SteelKing728]

I don't know if I could do top 10, but BB at #1 probably for forever

After that, I'll take Howie Roseman over anyone. I like what Spielman has done for the Vikings roster, but I'm jealous of how good that Eagles roster is. Dude is a wizard.

John Dorsey will turn that Browns team around. 

Ryan Pace has put the pieces together for Chicago, but Trubisky is totally up in the air. He's by far the biggest question mark on that team.  

 

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, SteelKing728 said:

I don't know if I could do top 10, but BB at #1 probably for forever

After that, I'll take Howie Roseman over anyone. I like what Spielman has done for the Vikings roster, but I'm jealous of how good that Eagles roster is. Dude is a wizard.

John Dorsey will turn that Browns team around. 

Ryan Pace has put the pieces together for Chicago, but Trubisky is totally up in the air. He's by far the biggest question mark on that team.  

 

People do need to realize however how important and influential the head coach is as well.  Take the Vikings for example, no way they get a lot of the players they currently have unless Zimmer was the head coach.  It is not Spielman selected them with no input from anyone on the coaching staff.  Sure a GM is important but most good teams it works as a unit to get prospects, and a guy the head coach likes, guess who they will probably take.  Or the Patriots, one thinks the GM of the Patriots has the final say on drafting a player, I doubt it, it begins and ends will Bill's opinion on them more often than not.

[.Buzz]

13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

People do need to realize however how important and influential the head coach is as well.  Take the Vikings for example, no way they get a lot of the players they currently have unless Zimmer was the head coach.  It is not Spielman selected them with no input from anyone on the coaching staff.  Sure a GM is important but most good teams it works as a unit to get prospects, and a guy the head coach likes, guess who they will probably take.  Or the Patriots, one thinks the GM of the Patriots has the final say on drafting a player, I doubt it, it begins and ends will Bill's opinion on them more often than not.

Same thing happened with the Jaguars, although the drafting by Caldwell has improved drastically the last few years.

Gus Bradley was awful. Last year Marrone comes in and the team has a totally different mindset/look to it. They expect to win every week under Marrone. That hasn't been the case in Jacksonville for damn near a decade.