2019 Draft Discussion

[Leader]

1 minute ago, Green19 said:

Did being a Tedford QB end up mattering for Rodgers?

Fact is it’s not any ONE thing. You need to look at everything. His height is only an issue if you have a HC, OC, etc that want a tall QB and don’t believe in short QBs.

Speed didn’t matter for Rice. Height hasn’t matter for Brees and Wilson. Murray won’t fail because of his height.

He is going to fail because he is likely drafted by Arizona and has a HC who is likely out of the league in 3 years ala Lane Kiffin. Haha

Green - opinions noted.
Data metics matter. Thats why each and every team takes them. If all they had to do was look at the tape - thats all they'd do - but they dont. They measure, weigh, cross reference and quantify all sorts of stuff - including height. Will Murry live or die because of his height? Nobody. Not I. Not you. Can know at this juncture. The metics dont make the man (or player) - but they have bearing on how the player ultimately performs - again - thats why they take them.

Nuf sed.

[CWood21]

16 minutes ago, Rodjahs12 said:

Starting to feel like Gary will be the pick at 12 if he’s there and honestly I like him in this defense a lot. I’d still like to get one of Sweat/Ferrell though to prepare for Fackrell leaving next offseason. 

After seeing the body types for Za'Darius Smith and Preston Smith, my guess is Clelin Ferrell is the guy they're going to take.  Unless they're looking for a different body type as a sub-pass rusher.

[PossibleCabbage]

So here's the thing: for any threshold, be it height, weight, speed or whatever- you can find guys who succeeded in spite of being "too short" or "too slow" or whatever.  But there are nonetheless a much lower percentage of guys who succeeded that didn't meet your thresholds than guys who do.  Like find me a high end NFL WR who ran a 4.8?  I'm not saying it *can't* happen, maybe he has amazing hands and runs great routes, but "too slow" is a reason guys fail.

So any time you're breaking your own rules to pick a guy you have to consider "well, is he exceptional?  Is he the outlier?" and sure some guys are but most people are not.  After all people have failed in the NFL because they are short and slow, but nobody has failed because they were not short and slow.

[JBURGE]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

There's a little thing you're forgetting to take into account.  The QB factor.  What QB is a team trading up for at 12?  Based on current rumors, Kyler Murray is off to the desert and Dwayne Haskins probably comes off the board shortly after.

I was going to like this and say "Good point," but then you hurt my feelings by lumping me in with Flat Earthers and Moon deniers. 

@Packerraymond, you've moved up to #1. 

I was gonna say it was for a QB. I am assuming that the QBs anyone cares about are gone in the first 6 picks. 

[Packerraymond]

19 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

After seeing the body types for Za'Darius Smith and Preston Smith, my guess is Clelin Ferrell is the guy they're going to take.  Unless they're looking for a different body type as a sub-pass rusher.

I would think they'll look for a different body type for sure, no reason for pick 12 to be a backup for 4 years. Z will kick inside in the nickel and they'll probably look for a lighter more athletic guy like Sweat or Burns to play on the edge with Preston. Or they'll find value with Gary or Oliver there and keep Z on the outside in the nickel and rush with Clark/DP on the interior.

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I would think they'll look for a different body type for sure, no reason for pick 12 to be a backup for 4 years. Z will kick inside in the nickel and they'll probably look for a lighter more athletic guy like Sweat or Burns to play on the edge with Preston. Or they'll find value with Gary or Oliver there and keep Z on the outside in the nickel and rush with Clark/DP on the interior.

That's my hope, but there's a LONG list of Pettine pass rushers and I believer Jerry Hughes was the "smallest" EDGE that he's had.

[deathstar]

10 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

I would think they'll look for a different body type for sure, no reason for pick 12 to be a backup for 4 years. Z will kick inside in the nickel and they'll probably look for a lighter more athletic guy like Sweat or Burns to play on the edge with Preston. Or they'll find value with Gary or Oliver there and keep Z on the outside in the nickel and rush with Clark/DP on the interior.

To me the signings yesterday made Sweat more of a possibility. 260 with room to grow.

[Green19]

38 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said:

So here's the thing: for any threshold, be it height, weight, speed or whatever- you can find guys who succeeded in spite of being "too short" or "too slow" or whatever.  But there are nonetheless a much lower percentage of guys who succeeded that didn't meet your thresholds than guys who do.  Like find me a high end NFL WR who ran a 4.8?  I'm not saying it *can't* happen, maybe he has amazing hands and runs great routes, but "too slow" is a reason guys fail.

So any time you're breaking your own rules to pick a guy you have to consider "well, is he exceptional?  Is he the outlier?" and sure some guys are but most people are not.  After all people have failed in the NFL because they are short and slow, but nobody has failed because they were not short and slow.

My original point was... Murray is short. Measuring him more than once isn’t going to change that.

Doesnt matter fighting over a half inch. Dude is short... we all SEE it. Him getting measured or not at his pro day doesn’t matter.

And in general “one measurement” isn’t a deal breaker for any one player. At the end you need to do your home work and see if the dude is a fit for the organization.

Plus the nfl is always evolving short QBs are finding more success. I place it more on GMs and HCs having a clear vision on how their teams should look. For some having a short guy isn’t an issue because they know how to use him.

Hence why I said it honestly doesn’t matter...if the teams embrace him and do their homework on him. Some stupid owner may just picking him because he won the heismen and that will wreck his career because he doesn’t look at everything.

[Dubz41]

2 minutes ago, Green19 said:

My original point was... Murray is short. Measuring him more than once isn’t going to change that.

Doesnt matter fighting over a half inch. Dude is short... we all SEE it. Him getting measured or not at his pro day doesn’t matter.

And in general “one measurement” isn’t a deal breaker for any one player. At the end you need to do your home work and see if the dude is a fit for the organization.

Plus the nfl is always evolving short QBs are finding more success. I place it more on GMs and HCs having a clear vision on how their teams should look. For some having a short guy isn’t an issue because they know how to use him.

Hence why I said it honestly doesn’t matter...if the teams embrace him and do their homework on him. Some stupid owner may just picking him because he won the heismen and that will wreck his career because he doesn’t look at everything.

If it just doesn't matter.....why is this going on for pages?!?! 

[fattlipp]

Think they end up going Hock or more likely DL, Oliver or Wilkins even, prepping for Daniels leaving next year.  Simmons falling to 30 would be an option as well.

[Green19]

3 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

If it just doesn't matter.....why is this going on for pages?!?! 

Because Leader and I had a nice little healthy debate.

I get why they measure everything. It’s because this isn’t a science and they are looking for a guarantee or at least a reason to point to if a guy fails.

plus offseason... something to discuss.

[MacReady]

Just now, fattlipp said:

Think they end up going Hock or more likely DL, Oliver or Wilkins even, prepping for Daniels leaving next year.  Simmons falling to 30 would be an option as well.

Packers might be different under Gute, but you're not gonna convince me they're so radically different they're about to take a tight end with their highest draft pick in 10 years.  Especially not one that didn't break a 4.69 40. 

[KManX89]

2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Packers might be different under Gute, but you're not gonna convince me they're so radically different they're about to take a tight end with their highest draft pick in 10 years.  Especially not one that didn't break a 4.69 40. 

The thing is, Hock's not likely to make it to our 30th pick. He's not even guaranteed to make it to 12 with Jacksonville signing Nick Foles, numerous mocks have him going to JAX at no.7 now that they no longer have to draft a QB. The Bills also need a TE after letting Clay go. 

If White, Gary or Oliver is there at 12, I'd say by all means, pull the trigger, but if they're all gone (and there's a good chance they will be), if you're Gute, you gotta at least be thinking about taking Hock. I wouldn't mind trading down and getting more picks, though. We could maybe pick up an extra third and use that to trade back into the second round.

[JBURGE]

10 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

Packers might be different under Gute, but you're not gonna convince me they're so radically different they're about to take a tight end with their highest draft pick in 10 years.  Especially not one that didn't break a 4.69 40. 

I don't think we take Hock at 12 either but this is hilarious, .01 seconds hahaha

[MacReady]

Just now, JBURGE said:

I don't think we take Hock at 12 either but this is hilarious, .01 seconds hahaha

Those .01 seconds are important when playing with Rodgers, who needs .03 seconds worth of separation to throw to a receiver.