Random Ravens Thoughts: New Forum Edition

[DreamKid]

Seems like the prevailing thought in the Raven's fan verse is that if we get into the playoffs and win one game it's been a successful season. That and the somewhat unspoken truth of "January Joe" this year, which is no matter how much magic he is capable of it won't be enough to turn our pumpkins into viable playoff caliber offensive weapons. 

It's horrible to feel "capped" or without enough firepower to win even if you play perfect and or special, but most of us anticipated that for the offense this year. What will feel the worst though is if this defense really fails us now, instead of the offense just falling short. Even with losing Orr, Young, Smith, Urban etc, it will feel like a true franchise failing and blemish.

Pees has embarrassed us this year and maybe it's not on him, maybe it's on us at this point for allowing it to take place, but actually pouring over everything highlights the ineptitude of him and the fact that he should no longer be coaching. It seems like unless put in a position that forces the right course of action in the most dire of ways, such as Orr's unfortunate injury ending his career and leaving a massive hole/down tick at RILB thus bringing forth more Dime looks, nothing proactive or god forbid inventive takes place. 

Does anyone actually believe that Tyus Bowser and Tim Williams are so raw and or incapable that they have nothing to contribute?, our 2nd and 3rd round picks. Our pass rush is struggling, why is our 2nd round COD monster, explosive pass rusher, only getting 2 snaps(Colts). Why is our 3rd round DPR!, not being put in a position to contribute in line with his skill set or even being activated come game day? As we watch our pass rush mire in ineffectual languidity during key games, are we supposed to forget that our most athletic highest potential rusher is decorating the sideline(Bowser) or that we have a DPR not even activated(Williams). I don't care that they aren't plus against the run, neither are half the plus pass rushers in the league, yet somehow their defensive coordinator figures out a way to field them in a productive manner. Maybe formulating a pass rush/edge rotation with situational variances is too complex a task for Pees. Therein lies the problem though, what isn't too complicated for him? Was the Carr/Antonio Brown debacle an indecipherable riddle? When will enough be enough, when we watch Kelce or Gronkowski torch the same defender over and over and over in a one and done playoff game?

 

[Danand]

The thing is, Dean Pees actually had one of his better seasons as a coach, where he actually schemed guys open and created pressure PLUS figured out we can play a dime defense and it works.

Still, with all we invested in the defense, there are too many "lows", compared to what other defense in the league experiences. The inability to get off the field on 3. down, many of the sacks/interceptions came when the game was already won and could look like statpadding.

While most of us have this romantic dream about organized chaos, where players just made huge impacts all around the field, we might come back down to earth if Pees retires.

Nevertheless, I believe Dreamkid has a point, as it is mindboggling how much we poured into the draft this year, and only the 1. round pick sees playing time.

Bowser, Williams and Wormley are basically non-factors, that could have been used on the offensive side of the ball. Considering our priorities, so far in its first year, its not a strategy which help us win games.

[DreamKid]

10 hours ago, Danand said:

The thing is, Dean Pees actually had one of his better seasons as a coach, where he actually schemed guys open and created pressure PLUS figured out we can play a dime defense and it works.

I know, that's what what makes the situation all the worse for me. It's bad when grandpa goes through the motions during monopoly and you end up with all of his money, but it's tragic when he tries his best and you end up owning his real house. With the Colts game, clearly adjustments were made, things were tightened up during halftime, but the base concept which had been proved ineffective remained the same. There's an absence of cognitive flexibility in Pees that is paramount to success in the league right now, and it's harming our team/chances.

[coordinator0]

Dean Pees is the same defensive coordinator he was with the Patriots. Last decade. The league evolved passed him before Harbaugh even promoted him to his current position after Pagano left. 

Of course none of this is new. Those against Pees (I feel like one of the leaders for that particular bandwagon) have said as much repeatedly over the years. He hasn't changed outside of being forced to... and only then because of injuries. The same concepts are in place though. Nothing really looks different outside of playing dime personnel. That's definitely an improvement. Just not one that actually fixes the core flaws of the defense. Soft, scared, and vanilla.

I for one still have no expectations whatsoever for the team. Any win is just gravy. There just isn't anything positive the Ravens do you can really count on. 

[sp6488]

Heard someone on the radio talking about how it was almost a certainty that he (Pees) will be retiring after this season.

Would really like to see Pagano back at DC.  Have heard some speculation that he may get some HC looks for one of the open spots, but I don't know what anyone saw in Indy that would make him a hot commodity for HC immediately.

Edited December 30, 2017 by sp6488

[RavensDefense3]

It's the perfect situation really, I think it might be one of those things like with Greg Mattison where we urge Pees to retire. Also don't think Pagano would get another HC shot anytime soon after indy.

[sp6488]

11 hours ago, RavensDefense3 said:

It's the perfect situation really, I think it might be one of those things like with Greg Mattison where we urge Pees to retire. Also don't think Pagano would get another HC shot anytime soon after indy.

Realized I had a typo. Not sure what fan base or owner would be excited about bringing Pagano in as a head guy this offseason. He was just so blah his entire tenure in Indy. 

[sp6488]

Apparently Mark Stoops is courting Ed Reed to coach DBs at Kentucky:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/kentucky-coach-mark-stoops-courting-ed-reed-to-join-staff-as-an-assistant/

[paraven]

on a whole other note, what are your opinions on chris moores ceiling? I could see him turning into a solid #2 if he continues his development. I liked him when he was drafted, im still praying he becomes the player perriman was meant to be. He has the physical attributes, just needs to work on those hands

[sp6488]

9 hours ago, paraven said:

on a whole other note, what are your opinions on chris moores ceiling? I could see him turning into a solid #2 if he continues his development. I liked him when he was drafted, im still praying he becomes the player perriman was meant to be. He has the physical attributes, just needs to work on those hands

He reminds me of those really effective #2/3 types Pittsburgh has drafted in recent years (a Markus Wheaton level of production perhaps).  While I don't see him as a true #2, I could see him being a high-end non-slot #3 type that teams have to worry about when he comes on the field.  I definitely think he could be a meaningful contributor (in addition to his ST work, where he's already been a contributor) in 2018 and 2019, then leave for a moderate contract (bringing back a comp pick) for the 2020 season and beyond.

[drd23]

I see a poor man's Torrey Smith and a good #3 at best with Moore (which is pretty good considering his draft position and the FO's history of drafting WRs).

I'd be happy to be proven wrong by underestimating him though

[sp6488]

15 minutes ago, drd23 said:

I see a poor man's Torrey Smith and a good #3 at best with Moore (which is pretty good considering his draft position and the FO's history of drafting WRs).

I'd be happy to be proven wrong by underestimating him though

Speaking of Torrey Smith, rumor has been that Philly will cut him this offseason (they have a zero penalty out for 2018 and he's set to make $5MM each of the next two seasons).  What would you think about bringing him back for another tour with this team?  His last three seasons have been fairly pedestrian, but reuniting him with Joe could be nice if the price is right.  $9MM / 3 years for his age 29-31 seasons?  He may not like that set-up due to his age, so perhaps we structure it as a low year-one amount, with a slightly more generous year 2/3 as a team option such that we can get out easy if he doesn't have it any more, but he makes a bit more should he outperform the  deal year one (at a higher rate than we would have him otherwise, similar to the Wallace deal). Perhaps, instead, as a backup option to not being able to resign Wallace?  

Potential 2018 core (assuming we cut Maclin): Wallace, Smith, ROOKIE, Moore, Campanero, Perriman

Side note, it's kind of funny talking about these two for the Ravens as he was labeled as a poor man's Mike Wallace by someone here following his last season in Baltimore IIRC (re: the timing, the label was definitely applied).

[drd23]

25 minutes ago, sp6488 said:

Potential 2018 core (assuming we cut Maclin): Wallace, Smith, ROOKIE, Moore, Campanero, Perriman

4 WRs who all do the same thing (none of which is route running or contested catching) plus the injury prone Camp and some unknown rookie?

[berlin calling]

agreed, at some point you gota acknowledge that your strategy of going speed only did nothing for this offense since 2012. time to go another direction w/ guys who do not body catch, can make contested catches and can run routes.

[diamondbull424]

I would prefer Torrey to Mike Wallace. He’s defensive pass interference king. And he should cost less than Wallace. He also would be the most likely to give a hometown discount.

In terms of having both Wallace and Torrey, i hate the idea. Would rather use the Wallace money and go after Jordan Matthews. Then go after another receiver in the draft as well.