Game 11: LAKE LAKE LAKE LAKE CARP

[sdrawkcab321]

12 hours ago, Here'sJim said:

 

Go to 2:21

 

Anyone concerned that Kitchens is rolling with the wishbone again? Said he was going to roll with it for 45-50 plays, I hope, jokingly in a recent interview. He didn't rule it out, that's for sure.

I feel like it's effectiveness will be reduced greatly with it being on film now ( and teams can scheme against it pretty easily). Is there any real reason to keep using it going forward?

I’m fine with some wishbone but not a RB pass to baker. 

[pnies20]

Saw it on the ticker and can’t find a link

AJ GREEN IS OUT!!!!!

[ditchdigger]

4 minutes ago, pnies20 said:

Saw it on the ticker and can’t find a link

AJ GREEN IS OUT!!!!!

[pnies20]

6 minutes ago, ditchdigger said:

Well.... we better kick their butt

[mistakey]

13 hours ago, candyman93 said:

I understand the concern, but every scheme gets figured out. Coaches and assistants do this ALL year.

 

You want to win matchups.

Start in wishbone, duke moves to the slot and Charles moves to TE now you’re just in 3wr singleback 

 

let’s go kitchens im excited for something weird

[TheeRealDeal]

I cannot even get into this Ohio State - Michigan game. I have never been so excited and anxious for a Browns games. We finally start looking decent and then bam 13 day wait before we can see it again.  I don't know if I am expecting a win but man this could be a huge momentum swing for this franchise.

[ReggieCamp]

On 11/22/2018 at 8:27 PM, hornbybrown said:

Whats the significance of him wearing the Bowling Green hoodie? A few people on twitter were getting worked up about it but I don't get the issue?!

A couple of his old coaches from Texas Tech are now at Bowling Green.  Plus, he referred to it as a "company sweatshirt".  Good on him for knowing the tie between Bowling Green and the Browns.  Browns used to have training camp there (a long time ago), and Paul Brown based the Browns' unis and helmets on Bowling Green's.  The only people who might be "upset" by it would be Oklahoma fans?  I agree with you - not a big deal.

[FGK]

56 minutes ago, ReggieCamp said:

A couple of his old coaches from Texas Tech are now at Bowling Green.  Plus, he referred to it as a "company sweatshirt".  Good on him for knowing the tie between Bowling Green and the Browns.  Browns used to have training camp there (a long time ago), and Paul Brown based the Browns' unis and helmets on Bowling Green's.  The only people who might be "upset" by it would be Oklahoma fans?  I agree with you - not a big deal.

Definitely not a big deal. It's a cool little "gets us" item, but no biggy.

[Kiwibrown]

Game prediction. 

Wewin by 2 scores 

Tes account for 2 scores and 12 receptions for 150 yards.

[Thomas5737]

5 hours ago, ReggieCamp said:

A couple of his old coaches from Texas Tech are now at Bowling Green.  Plus, he referred to it as a "company sweatshirt".  Good on him for knowing the tie between Bowling Green and the Browns.  Browns used to have training camp there (a long time ago), and Paul Brown based the Browns' unis and helmets on Bowling Green's.  The only people who might be "upset" by it would be Oklahoma fans?  I agree with you - not a big deal.

Yeah pretty sure when starting out they actually borrowed Bowling Green's uniforms for games.

[buno67]

7 hours ago, mistakey said:

Start in wishbone, duke moves to the slot and Charles moves to TE now you’re just in 3wr singleback 

 

let’s go kitchens im excited for something weird

Yeah you can motion to so many different looks. There is no way Freddie doesn’t have other wrinkles add to that formation package. He has to have someThing to throw at teams after he sees what they do when they come out in that fullhkuse package

[bruceb]

1 hour ago, buno67 said:

He has to have someThing to throw at teams after he sees what they do when they come out in that fullhkuse package

What?

In-game adjustments?

From the Browns?

Oh, for a moment I forgot that Hueball is gone.

[bruceb]

All I know is that I have a double load of good beer (I bought a 6 of 16 oz. Arrogant Bastard and the wife, God love her, not knowing that bought another) and a can of Whoop *** that I am just dying to open.

I expect a convincing win.

 

[buno67]

On 11/23/2018 at 11:08 PM, Here'sJim said:

I feel that it's very difficult to run out of that formation considering that it enables your opponent to put 8-9 guys into the box. The Falcons were able to cover the college option runs once they got used to it, and they have an advantage when going against the run up the middle.

Wanna talk about running the ball, Whether you specialize in man, zone or gap run schemes, the extra blocker coming from the backfield is a big bonus.  You can run inside zone and still have a lead blocker (by having the backside back cut off the C gap).  You can run Power and have the backside back pull and lead through or you can simply run your isolation schemes and send both backs through the point of attack. It’s a terrific equalizer to teams that will try to put eight or nine defenders in the box - you have eight to block them.

You force defenses to declare their strength pre-snap by setting their front and their coverage.  Once they tip their hand, you can run Power or Isolation either way (with the QB checking which side).  A balanced offense makes it difficult for an even front defense to set its strength and it allows teams to audible and run at the 1-tech or 3-technique.  You can run the same plays both directions without shifts/motions.

There is a lot of things Freddie and the offense could out of the full house package. Best part is opposing defenses have to prepare for it. Its not an easy formation to properly prepare. They have to spend a decent amount of time on it because the package can create big plays if the defense isnt  set up or properly executing their responsibilities. 

On 11/23/2018 at 11:08 PM, Here'sJim said:

When it comes to passing, I fear that the formation is extremely vulnerable to added pressure. Blitzs can be dialed up from an 8-9 man box to cause chaos in the backfield (either due to heavy reliance of the running backs blocking, or just being out manned on the line), and force Baker to hit his checkdowns quickly (which can lead to additional qb hits, big losses etc...).

They might be able to bring the pressure but they greatly reveal their pass coverage a lot easier. The first time the Falcons came out. They put 9 in the box with 1 safety deep. Not a lot of coverages to do with that. So it allows Baker to read better pre-snap. 

 

On 11/23/2018 at 11:08 PM, Here'sJim said:

If the defense refrains from pressure,  I still don't feel like the matchups are great (though I agree they arn't bad). I don't trust Chubb as a receiver yet (I still think he can be covered by a lb for now), Hilliard isn't special, and a safety can afford to play manned up on Duke. 

A safety can play on Duke but that Safety plays extremely close to the LOS and allows intermedate to deep passes to be made or the Browns get duke matched up with a LB one on one. That is exactly what happen the first time they ran it. They got Duke one on one with a LB, duke catches it in the flat and picks up 6 yards for the 1st down. Once you saw the LBs leaving to cover the backs, it creates a huge void over the middle and they come right back with a slant a few players later in the same package. Falcons never really stopped that package. Freddie just never went back to it.

On 11/23/2018 at 11:08 PM, Here'sJim said:

Only other option is a receiver and a TE.  Defence is left with 2 cbs, a lb and a safety to cover those guys. If matchups get ugly, I feel that you can still switch to a nickel and still address the run game pretty easily. 

Once the defense loads the box, you get one-on-one coverage with the outside receivers. Baker is a pretty accurate QB. I dont think you want to give him easy one on one match ups. Defenses can come and play in any package they want. 

[Here'sJim]

9 hours ago, buno67 said:

Wanna talk about running the ball, Whether you specialize in man, zone or gap run schemes, the extra blocker coming from the backfield is a big bonus.  You can run inside zone and still have a lead blocker (by having the backside back cut off the C gap).  You can run Power and have the backside back pull and lead through or you can simply run your isolation schemes and send both backs through the point of attack. It’s a terrific equalizer to teams that will try to put eight or nine defenders in the box - you have eight to block them.

You force defenses to declare their strength pre-snap by setting their front and their coverage.  Once they tip their hand, you can run Power or Isolation either way (with the QB checking which side).  A balanced offense makes it difficult for an even front defense to set its strength and it allows teams to audible and run at the 1-tech or 3-technique.  You can run the same plays both directions without shifts/motions.

There is a lot of things Freddie and the offense could out of the full house package. Best part is opposing defenses have to prepare for it. Its not an easy formation to properly prepare. They have to spend a decent amount of time on it because the package can create big plays if the defense isnt  set up or properly executing their responsibilities. 

They might be able to bring the pressure but they greatly reveal their pass coverage a lot easier. The first time the Falcons came out. They put 9 in the box with 1 safety deep. Not a lot of coverages to do with that. So it allows Baker to read better pre-snap. 

 

A safety can play on Duke but that Safety plays extremely close to the LOS and allows intermedate to deep passes to be made or the Browns get duke matched up with a LB one on one. That is exactly what happen the first time they ran it. They got Duke one on one with a LB, duke catches it in the flat and picks up 6 yards for the 1st down. Once you saw the LBs leaving to cover the backs, it creates a huge void over the middle and they come right back with a slant a few players later in the same package. Falcons never really stopped that package. Freddie just never went back to it.

Once the defense loads the box, you get one-on-one coverage with the outside receivers. Baker is a pretty accurate QB. I dont think you want to give him easy one on one match ups. Defenses can come and play in any package they want. 

Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time engaging my concerns. I'm still a little hesitant relying on rbs blocking in the run game considering who we are asking to do it. Either the other team will see Orson Charles, and quickly be able to guage that it's a run, or it'll be a rb that I would argue would not be a reliable blockers for iso and power. In addition, the nature of our tide ends will make it easier for a defense to address what we are trying to do. Either Darren Fells will be in (and allow the defense to key in on the run) or Njoku will be in (who could weaken the effectiveness of the run). 

 

Back to passing, I would argue that this formation is not ideal for intermediate to long passes due to it's vulnerabilities to pressure. We are left with 5 guys (plus what ever rb we use to block or if we leave a te to block) on the line against as many as 8 guys (all of which will be difficult for a rb to block consistently). Either we will have to leave people back to block, (which makes it easier for the defenseto cover the 1 we and te we have) or we will have to rely on getting the ball off as quickly as possible to rbs with more limited route trees. 

In addition, I feel if a defense wants to prep for this formation they can refrain from declaring what their defense is doing. The lack of receivers in the formation frees up how you use your cbs and safeties, and there are a variety of ways you can arrange them to disguise the coverages. It can be done with even better efficiency considering that our wr on the outside can be covered by a versatile corner( I mean, who is going to exploit that one on one matchup, Landry????). 

 

I just need to see more from this formation to really make a solid conclusion on it's effectiveness. The Falcons were caught completely off guard and didn't really offer suggestions on how to properly defend the formation in the long run. It's good in the sense that it will force defenses to prep for a lot of options, but it doesn't create mismatches that I'm too scared of at end of the day once a defense schemes against it properly. The effectiveness of the plays will come down to the personnel we use (and how much time we use to practice this formation), and defenses can tailor themselves to address what personnel does well to negate some of it's effectiveness. The personnel for passing situations will never be better than some of the other typical formations used (even if coverages are more visible) and the running game relys heavily on good blocks by our rbs to prevent being out manned. Guess we'll find out today if I'm wrong.