big_palooka Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 8 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Oliver definitely is extremely talented, he was a top 10 recruit coming out of HS but went to Houston to be close to home. The only concern I'd have is how well does he fit next to Mo Hurst? Can our run defense hold up with two undersized DT in the middle of our DL? We'd have a 6'2" 290 (Hurst) and a 6'2" 275 (Oliver) guy at DT. That's why I wouldn't draft Oliver. Too similar to Hurst and same position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chwf3rd25 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 21 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: I’m not one to look at 2017 tape cause guys and competition improve. I don’t care what they did 2 yrs ago I wanna see what they’re doing now. But that’s just my crazy thoughts. Then you wouldn’t have touched guys like Jadaveon Clowney and Derwin James at their draft spots. Both of those guys didn’t look like the same players their last years in school. 22 minutes ago, NCOUGHMAN said: I think all “elite “ prospects should have at least 1 signature game vs legit nfl prospects to show that they can dominate on the next level. My bad but that’s just me. That’s why there’s bowl games, senior bowl etc etc so even lower level guys without stacked schedules can prove themselves. I watched Texas tech 2018 and came away unimpressed he looked like a late first to me. Seems unfair given that Oliver can’t choose what teams he’s playing. What is Bosa’s signature game? What about Denzel Ward last year? Did Bradley Chubb have a signature game last year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Everyone's hating on Oliver but he produced at a higher level than Bosa who's supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Oliver (32 games): 53 TFL, 13.5 sacks Bosa (29 games): 29 TFL, 17.5 sacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted January 22, 2019 Share Posted January 22, 2019 Im ok with Gary after trade down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 30 minutes ago, Chwf3rd25 said: Then you wouldn’t have touched guys like Jadaveon Clowney and Derwin James at their draft spots. Both of those guys didn’t look like the same players their last years in school. Seems unfair given that Oliver can’t choose what teams he’s playing. What is Bosa’s signature game? What about Denzel Ward last year? Did Bradley Chubb have a signature game last year? Lol I’d have to check on last years prospects but I was driving the draft Derwin train and I liked Bradley. Kinda wanna focus on this years draft more. bosa tho I did have to watch last years Ohio st -okla game since he’s been injured all year. Him and Orlando has a good battle he got through a couple times but Orlando kept him semi in check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 51 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Everyone's hating on Oliver but he produced at a higher level than Bosa who's supposed to be the best thing since sliced bread. Oliver (32 games): 53 TFL, 13.5 sacks Bosa (29 games): 29 TFL, 17.5 sacks Diff positions diff strength of schedules and I’m not even really a bosa fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I, personally, don't need to see a guy play against the best to understand how good he is and what traits he has. I'm also generally unconvinced by stat comparisons without context. We should remember that Joey Bosa only had 5 sacks while playing virtually a full season in his final year at Ohio State. At the end of the day, I trust what I see even if the stat sheet doesn't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roi34 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 21 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: I, personally, don't need to see a guy play against the best to understand how good he is and what traits he has. I'm also generally unconvinced by stat comparisons without context. We should remember that Joey Bosa only had 5 sacks while playing virtually a full season in his final year at Ohio State. At the end of the day, I trust what I see even if the stat sheet doesn't agree. Eye test wins versus stats indeed. Some guys dont even hit potential in college. Some guys aren't in right system or surrounded by right talent and vice versa. Thats why guys are steals and busts. Barkley wasn't breaking college records at Penn st. But looking at him you knew he'd he stud in nfl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 56 minutes ago, roi34 said: Eye test wins versus stats indeed. Some guys dont even hit potential in college. Some guys aren't in right system or surrounded by right talent and vice versa. Thats why guys are steals and busts. Barkley wasn't breaking college records at Penn st. But looking at him you knew he'd he stud in nfl. Barkley might not be the best example because he still put up tremendous stats, but I get what you're saying. I think this analysis is especially pertinent when it comes to defensive players--whose on-field impact is often not measured by measurable statistics. Rashan Gary and Ed Oliver are both poster children of the lying stat argument. I haven't watched enough of Oliver, but Gary, to me, is clearly an elite prospect with speed and strength befitting of a number one overall pick (although I'm not saying he should go #1 overall). On the field, I can see why his production wasn't great because he was either (1) not lined up in a favorable pass-rushing gap, or (2) double and triple teamed. I think these types of stats-based arguments go away when those who rely on them have other numbers to go by--namely: the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 https://youtu.be/7H7RoRsJE78 gruden pc at senior bowl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigD1123 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 I am probably in the small minority. But I'd be down for drafting Oliver...as a DE. He has the speed flexibility and hand work to be stellar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 38 minutes ago, BigD1123 said: I am probably in the small minority. But I'd be down for drafting Oliver...as a DE. He has the speed flexibility and hand work to be stellar. He's so small though he might be 6'1". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, BigD1123 said: I am probably in the small minority. But I'd be down for drafting Oliver...as a DE. He has the speed flexibility and hand work to be stellar. I can't see that. He's short and not overly long. He loses a ton of leverage in those situations to tackles who are 6'6" - 6'8" with 34 and 35 inch arms. Plus, now you're lining him up on tackles who are typically more fluid, quicker, and have better feet movement than guards, so you're mitigating one of Oliver's greatest assets by bridging the gap between the offensive lineman's skillset and Oliver's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 4 hours ago, Rich7sena said: I, personally, don't need to see a guy play against the best to understand how good he is and what traits he has. I'm also generally unconvinced by stat comparisons without context. We should remember that Joey Bosa only had 5 sacks while playing virtually a full season in his final year at Ohio State. At the end of the day, I trust what I see even if the stat sheet doesn't agree. Yeah, Bosa was also heavily rotated in years one and two. Those defensive fronts for the Buckeyes were completely stacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raidr4life Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 On 1/21/2019 at 6:44 AM, Rich7sena said: I thought this too, but apparently Jonah Williams--the presumptive top tackle--isn't thought highly of by the NFL. I know the NFL isn't a monolith but it also kind is a monolith--we'll see. alot changes after the combine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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