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Raiders Defense


Rolni
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6 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I think you might be underestimating his abilities.  Yes there might be 100 DEs better than him but to say 100 that could play in the league and willing to take the vet minimum is a stretch.  He might take a small prove it deal because he is willing to bet on himself but I also think he could get a 3 year $3-4 million per year contract.

He's going to get a 1 year prove it deal wherever he signs because no one is going to commit to him long term. We have a four year sample size of him being ineffective in a variety of schemes/roles.

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6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

He's going to get a 1 year prove it deal wherever he signs because no one is going to commit to him long term. We have a four year sample size of him being ineffective in a variety of schemes/roles.

Meh we’re also the definition of dysfunction and other teams still believe we lightweight ruin guys. We could scrape together all our old players still playing we could make a decent team well compared to our current roster. 

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1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Meh we’re also the definition of dysfunction and other teams still believe we lightweight ruin guys. We could scrape together all our old players still playing we could make a decent team well compared to our current roster. 

As I've said, if he wasn't the former #4 overall pick, he'd be an after thought. He hasn't been effective with four different DC's but maybe, just maybe, if we give him a 5th year he may finally be good.

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13 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

As I've said, if he wasn't the former #4 overall pick, he'd be an after thought. He hasn't been effective with four different DC's but maybe, just maybe, if we give him a 5th year he may finally be good.

Maybe we should draft players and not try to change their position. Cle is a solid base de that offers the occasional pass rush. Nothing more nothing less Imo. He’s good vs the run arguably the best de we have vs the run except maxx. 

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1 hour ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Maybe we should draft players and not try to change their position. Cle is a solid base de that offers the occasional pass rush. Nothing more nothing less Imo. He’s good vs the run arguably the best de we have vs the run except maxx. 

We gave Ferrell multiple years in a starting base DE role that fit his strengths and he was terrible. Dude is one of the biggest busts in recent NFL draft history. How come we’ve been one of the worst run defending teams in the league every year with Cle? Dude sucks

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12 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

We gave Ferrell multiple years in a starting base DE role that fit his strengths and he was terrible. Dude is one of the biggest busts in recent NFL draft history. How come we’ve been one of the worst run defending teams in the league every year with Cle? Dude sucks

I would say this has more to do with the DTs and coaching.  Do you remember a couple years ago we had Crosby crashing down the line every play and the edge was never set.  Our defensive coaching has been pretty bad.  Maybe we should just let him walk because he might not improve with the bad coaching he is still getting.  I expect him to to improve by a lot if he goes to another team.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/23/2022 at 12:56 PM, drfrey13 said:

I would say this has more to do with the DTs and coaching.  Do you remember a couple years ago we had Crosby crashing down the line every play and the edge was never set.  Our defensive coaching has been pretty bad.  Maybe we should just let him walk because he might not improve with the bad coaching he is still getting.  I expect him to to improve by a lot if he goes to another team.

Cle? 

I don't know. I think we just lost the lottery on that pick. A DL of Cle, Wilkins, Lawrence, and Bryant at the college level is bound to look really good, especially considering hindsight. Wilkins and Lawrence being next to each other probably really helped Bryant and Cle, and Cle just happened to get the greater benefit. I have a hard time seeing him be much more than a JAG depth DE. 

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1 hour ago, ronjon1990 said:

Cle? 

I don't know. I think we just lost the lottery on that pick. A DL of Cle, Wilkins, Lawrence, and Bryant at the college level is bound to look really good, especially considering hindsight. Wilkins and Lawrence being next to each other probably really helped Bryant and Cle, and Cle just happened to get the greater benefit. I have a hard time seeing him be much more than a JAG depth DE. 

My first response to the pick was he was the 3rd best player on that line.  I have repeatedly said I wanted Lawrence more than anyone else on that line.  I still think Ferrell is better that what he has shown here.  I thought his ceiling was Brandon Graham and should have been drafted in the 2nd half of the first round.  If he is in the right situation he is a quality starter.  I do not think he will ever have double digit sacks but that does not mean he can not be a good all around player.  He did not look bad his rookie year.  Just not #4 pick good.

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8 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Whats EPA?

I believe it's something like Expected Points Added or something like that............ I think it's basically a metric to try and establish if you're performing as expected or better/worse than expected but it seems a little bit arbitrary to me.

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13 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Whats EPA?

Nothing like obscure stars with no context to prove a point that respect = actually being good at something, right? 

It's "expected points added" and is kind of sort of based on an offense's field position throughout games relative to the opponent's end zone. Basically it's probably the only obscure and convoluted stat he could find that indicates any actual improvement from the defense.....

Which is funny, because after week 14, we currently stand 28th in it on D, 31st in drop back EPA, and 6th in rushing EPA, all but confirming that while we're pretty good at stopping the run, Patrick Graham can't scheme a coverage to save his life and teams are starting to catch on that he's going to scheme up coverages that leave gaping holes like 20 yards downfield or play press with backups on their heels with 15 seconds against an advancing opponent. 

Defenders of this staff will literally grasp at the most meaningless and obscure, and now apparently hypothetical, stat they can to avoid simply admitting that they were wrong about Josh and Pat being good choices. They'll avoid contextual arguments (something the Carr bashers have always done, and being a Carr basher seems to heavily correlate to being a McDaniels defender) and try and be @big_palookaand say they "see what you're doing" whenever you dare question the respect on Patrick Graham's name by pointing out that his defenses have looked solid.... against bad teams. 

But watch out, man, the Pope man is gonna come for you for being disagreeable and not conceding to piss poor takes and arguments he likes for the sake of conceding because concessions can be made in 280 characters or less and reading hurts his head. 

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3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Nothing like obscure stars with no context to prove a point that respect = actually being good at something, right? 

It's "expected points added" and is kind of sort of based on an offense's field position throughout games relative to the opponent's end zone. Basically it's probably the only obscure and convoluted stat he could find that indicates any actual improvement from the defense.....

Which is funny, because after week 14, we currently stand 28th in it on D, 31st in drop back EPA, and 6th in rushing EPA, all but confirming that while we're pretty good at stopping the run, Patrick Graham can't scheme a coverage to save his life and teams are starting to catch on that he's going to scheme up coverages that leave gaping holes like 20 yards downfield or play press with backups on their heels with 15 seconds against an advancing opponent. 

Defenders of this staff will literally grasp at the most meaningless and obscure, and now apparently hypothetical, stat they can to avoid simply admitting that they were wrong about Josh and Pat being good choices. They'll avoid contextual arguments (something the Carr bashers have always done, and being a Carr basher seems to heavily correlate to being a McDaniels defender) and try and be @big_palookaand say they "see what you're doing" whenever you dare question the respect on Patrick Graham's name by pointing out that his defenses have looked solid.... against bad teams. 

But watch out, man, the Pope man is gonna come for you for being disagreeable and not conceding to piss poor takes and arguments he likes for the sake of conceding because concessions can be made in 280 characters or less and reading hurts his head. 

Do you believe in law of averages?

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