2020 Needs and Free Agent List

[British]

The right tackle spot next year is super interesting. 

I'd rather not re-sign Bulaga and his dodgy knees. Give me the comp pick, especially as we're unlikely to be going on a spending spree ourselves.

I'm hoping Spriggs can show he's the man for the job because there's no one else on the roster that looks viable. We have some great competition at Guard but none of them look like serious options at OT.  A few games of mediocre play from Turner doesn't bode well. 

[Joe]

37 minutes ago, British said:

The right tackle spot next year is super interesting. 

I'd rather not re-sign Bulaga and his dodgy knees. Give me the comp pick, especially as we're unlikely to be going on a spending spree ourselves.

I'm hoping Spriggs can show he's the man for the job because there's no one else on the roster that looks viable. We have some great competition at Guard but none of them look like serious options at OT.  A few games of mediocre play from Turner doesn't bode well. 

Agreed. This is why we drafted Jenkins and signed Turner. At worst, it's a position that can hold us over until we find a more long-term solution.

[British]

I'm all for bolstering the interior OL, it was much needed. But putting Jenkins or Turner at OT seems like a bad idea. Turner has been ok at G but really not good at OT. Hearing the way the Packers talk about Jenkins they say he can get you out of a game there but it doesn't feel like they have any expectation of him being the answer. I think both those guys are designed to fix our interior holes and possibly replace Lane Taylor. OT next year feels like Spriggs, Bulaga, Alex Light or the raw 6'7 OT UDFA - or someone not currently on the roster. 

[Golfman]

2 hours ago, British said:

I'm all for bolstering the interior OL, it was much needed. But putting Jenkins or Turner at OT seems like a bad idea. Turner has been ok at G but really not good at OT. Hearing the way the Packers talk about Jenkins they say he can get you out of a game there but it doesn't feel like they have any expectation of him being the answer. I think both those guys are designed to fix our interior holes and possibly replace Lane Taylor. OT next year feels like Spriggs, Bulaga, Alex Light or the raw 6'7 OT UDFA - or someone not currently on the roster. 

Bulaga doesn't see another contract and will likely not play 16 games this year. Spriggs has done nothing in three years to prove he's worthy of another contract. I'd say we're in the market next year for an OT in a big way, unless something happens this year that is unexpected and we acquire a guy. 

Anthony Davis comes to mind if his head is in it. The other possibility is Cole Madison who I believe played T in college. 

[OneTwoSixFive]

9 hours ago, Golfman said:

I'd say we're in the market next year for an OT in a big way, unless something happens this year that is unexpected and we acquire a guy. 

First two rounds, for an OT,  since whoever is picked in 2020 will probably have to start straight away.

Edited May 7, 2019 by OneTwoSixFive

[MantyWrestler]

5 hours ago, Joe said:

Agreed. This is why we drafted Jenkins and signed Turner. At worst, it's a position that can hold us over until we find a more long-term solution.

Madison played RT on college too

[HyponGrey]

10 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

Does it matter - you get the point he was trying to make.

I don't think you should spending your money on third contracts unless either

• a) its a one year deal
• b) the player hasn't had any injury problems or sign of regression and even then I'm wary about anything long
• c) its a QB or someone deemed irreplaceable

Daniels has had injury problems and has started to show signs of regression. I wouldn't consider cutting him this season and would happy to give him a 1 year deal but otherwise you walk away. Same with Bulaga, if he survives the season relatively intact and he is OK with a one year contract then so am I otherwise he should be on his way.

Martinez needs renewing*. Yes its probably an overpay but most contracts look like overpays. Decent starters who work well in your system are players you need to get signed up for a second deal. Lowry should be signed up and probably Geronimo at some point. If you don't keep your decent players on a second deal then you will always be chasing holes in the roster. I'd rather overpay someone like Martinez than have older guys on big contracts who are regressing and becoming more and more vulnerable to injury - he says glancing at the TE position. Fackrell is tricky because the other stats say he isn't a 10 sack player. There's a good chance we see regression to the mean next season. 

*As he didn't draft or sign him, this assumes that he is a player Gute 'wants' as opposed to someone he will tolerate as a starter whilst on a rookie deal

Meh, I'm willing to go 2 yr at a time, but not any longer than that. Especially at DL where players *can* age well. Depends on the guarantees and how much I feel the player still affects the game. 

Edited May 7, 2019 by HyponGrey

[Lodestar]

12 hours ago, mikemike778 said:

Does it matter - you get the point he was trying to make.

I don't think you should spending your money on third contracts unless either

• a) its a one year deal
• b) the player hasn't had any injury problems or sign of regression and even then I'm wary about anything long
• c) its a QB or someone deemed irreplaceable

Daniels has had injury problems and has started to show signs of regression. I wouldn't consider cutting him this season and would happy to give him a 1 year deal but otherwise you walk away. Same with Bulaga, if he survives the season relatively intact and he is OK with a one year contract then so am I otherwise he should be on his way.

Martinez needs renewing*. Yes its probably an overpay but most contracts look like overpays. Decent starters who work well in your system are players you need to get signed up for a second deal. Lowry should be signed up and probably Geronimo at some point. If you don't keep your decent players on a second deal then you will always be chasing holes in the roster. I'd rather overpay someone like Martinez than have older guys on big contracts who are regressing and becoming more and more vulnerable to injury - he says glancing at the TE position. Fackrell is tricky because the other stats say he isn't a 10 sack player. There's a good chance we see regression to the mean next season. 

*As he didn't draft or sign him, this assumes that he is a player Gute 'wants' as opposed to someone he will tolerate as a starter whilst on a rookie deal

This is really well said. It's hard walking away from veteran players, but the good teams do it.

[AlexGreen#20]

Daniels historically has not had a double team anchor. His ability to deal with that primarily comes from tremendous hand strength, hustle, toughness, and footwork. He gets pushed out of the gap and then manages to fight back into it after the second lineman has moved into the second level. That's a way it can be done, but it isn't always ideal.

If you think his footspeed is going to go, as he ages, you cut bait, because if all he's got are his hands and his motor that's not a player worth the contract that will be requested.

[PackFan4Life]

22 hours ago, CWood21 said:

I'd argue that Tretter was better than Linsley, and had a bigger impact but he wasn't reliable.

This. Tretter was better then Linsley. Just could not stay on the field early in his career and Linsley did.

 

 

[vegas492]

26 minutes ago, PackFan4Life said:

This. Tretter was better then Linsley. Just could not stay on the field early in his career and Linsley did.

 

 

I wouldn't go so far as to say "better".  I think they were/are good, but their games were very different.

Taking away the injuries to Tretter....

Tretter had a lot more movement to his game.  Agility, ability to pull.  Not the best anchor.

Lindsley has amazing strength.  I would never say that movement, like big time pulling is his game.  Anchoring is.  Very strong, great understanding of leverage.  

I thought that Tretter had a higher ceiling at center, but injuries just kept him off of the field.  I'm unsure how he is doing in Cleveland, or what position he is even playing anymore. 

[craig]

22 hours ago, British said:

The right tackle spot next year is super interesting. 

I'd rather not re-sign Bulaga and his dodgy knees. Give me the comp pick, especially as we're unlikely to be going on a spending spree ourselves.

I'm hoping Spriggs can show he's the man for the job because there's no one else on the roster that looks viable. We have some great competition at Guard but none of them look like serious options at OT.  A few games of mediocre play from Turner doesn't bode well. 

Good post.  Note:  don't think Bulaga is going to get you a meaningful comp pick.  Maybe a 6th round pick, stuck right in front of round 7?  Not a real factor.  

I'd love to hope Spriggs becomes a guy, but not confident we'll want him as a starter.  Turner, as with Spriggs it's not impossible but the odds aren't good.  Bulaga, the odds aren't good either; but given that none of our guys are good-odds prospects to be solid/average NFL starters, I'm not sure Bulaga's odds aren't as good or better than Spriggs or Turner or Alex Light or Cole Madison or Jenkins.  

With both Bulaga and Daniels, I think the board is wisely reluctant to.  But if you guys are smart enough to realize that 3rd-contract guys don't tend to be healthy and excellent, won't every GM in the league realize that as well? 

The point I'm making with that rhetorical question is that, for the same age+injury-based devaluation reasons that we have for Bulaga and Daniels, every GM in the league will have those same age+injury reasons to devalue them.  Neither is going to get a long-term, big-guarantee contract.  Anybody who signs them, whether it's us or somebody else, is going to sign them with a structure that makes it manageable to get out after a year or two; and nobody is going to commit a big chunk of cap space to either of those well-worn players.  

I think there's a chance that Bulaga despite his age and injuries, may still be a better bet than Spriggs or Turner or Alex Light or Cole Madison.  And that he may be available at a modest, short-term price that isn't too bad?  Lots of uncertainty, but a lot of different ways the Packers might go forward.  Resigning Bulaga to a team-appropriate deal is not beyond possible.  

[Joe]

I think Turner and Jenkins could handle RT responsibilities in the event Spriggs doesn't continue to improve. 

[CWood21]

28 minutes ago, craig said:

Good post.  Note:  don't think Bulaga is going to get you a meaningful comp pick.  Maybe a 6th round pick, stuck right in front of round 7?  Not a real factor.  

Assuming he's healthy and productive (which is a big assumption), he's going to get a good sized contract.  Not Trent Brown big, but he'd still easily get $8M+ on the FA market IMO.  That would possibly get a 4th round pick if he were to walk as a FA.  Now if he gets a smaller contract than we're looking at a worse pick, but if he's healthy and productive he's going to get paid.  Preferably by someone else.

[mikemike778]

26 minutes ago, craig said:

Good post.  Note:  don't think Bulaga is going to get you a meaningful comp pick.  Maybe a 6th round pick, stuck right in front of round 7?  Not a real factor.  

I'd love to hope Spriggs becomes a guy, but not confident we'll want him as a starter.  Turner, as with Spriggs it's not impossible but the odds aren't good.  Bulaga, the odds aren't good either; but given that none of our guys are good-odds prospects to be solid/average NFL starters, I'm not sure Bulaga's odds aren't as good or better than Spriggs or Turner or Alex Light or Cole Madison or Jenkins.  

With both Bulaga and Daniels, I think the board is wisely reluctant to.  But if you guys are smart enough to realize that 3rd-contract guys don't tend to be healthy and excellent, won't every GM in the league realize that as well? 

The point I'm making with that rhetorical question is that, for the same age+injury-based devaluation reasons that we have for Bulaga and Daniels, every GM in the league will have those same age+injury reasons to devalue them.  Neither is going to get a long-term, big-guarantee contract.  Anybody who signs them, whether it's us or somebody else, is going to sign them with a structure that makes it manageable to get out after a year or two; and nobody is going to commit a big chunk of cap space to either of those well-worn players.  

I think there's a chance that Bulaga despite his age and injuries, may still be a better bet than Spriggs or Turner or Alex Light or Cole Madison.  And that he may be available at a modest, short-term price that isn't too bad?  Lots of uncertainty, but a lot of different ways the Packers might go forward.  Resigning Bulaga to a team-appropriate deal is not beyond possible.  

Of course, if he makes it through this season relatively intact then I would be happy to give him a one year deal on sensible money. No problems with that at all  .... but no longer (unless we are talking a one year deal that has two years written down on it as an accounting fiddle to spread some of the cost into another year). 

Re-signing Bulaga though would mean they haven't figured out who will replace him in which case OT becomes priority 1A, 1B and 1C next year. Whether its via the draft or via a second contract big money free agent.