2020 NFL Draft Discussion

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, gizmo2012 said:

Don't discount the Packers trading for a WR on draft day or before. A true #2 is not a rookie.

#2 Receivers in the playoffs:

Seahawks: DK Metcalf

Eagles: Nelson Agholor

Vikings: Adam Thielen

Saints: Tedd Ginn Jr

Packers: Allen Lazard

49ers: Deebo Samuel

Titans: Corey Davis (AJ Brown as the #1)

Patriots: Phillip Dorsett

Bills: Cole Beasley

Texans: Will Fuller

Chiefs: Sammy Watkins

Ravens: Willy Snead (Hollywood Brown as the #1)

Of the 12 teams in the playoffs:

4 have rookies as either #1 or #2 WRs (AJ Brown, Hollywood Brown, DK Metcalf, Deebo Samuel)

5 have journeymen: Agholor, Ginn, Dorsett, Beasley, Watkins (discounting Snead and Davis because I used AJ and Hollywood above)

1 has a nobody: Allen Lazard

2 have pretty darn good players that were hurt: Thielen and Fuller

[AlexGreen#20]

11 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Bush from last year. Also, recruiting rankings are not accurate as you know, or should know. They get a lot more wrong than they do right. If you watched Michigan football against top teams you'd plainly see they do not have enough athletes on the field to compete. It is reflected in the number of players that get drafted. 

Harbaugh was successful at Stanford. He was successful at San Francisco. He didn't just suddenly forget how to coach. 

Dylan McCaffrey is the highest rated QB he's had. He's supposed to be the starter this year, should have been last year. We'll see how he does. 

Bush was the #312 recruit in the class. He wasn't some monster player coming out of high school.

Michigan got it's *** kicked by Wisconsin this year in embarrassing fashion. Don't tell me it's not because they don't have athletes. Michigan's recruting rankings from 2016-2018 vs Wisconsin (8/35, 5/39, 22/46).

I'm looking at the players getting drafted, and the only thing coming out of Michigan right now IS raw athletes. They're not producing finished products, that's why they're not getting drafted.

Harbaugh was successful at Stanford when he was forced into a very specific way of coaching. The development had to be elite at Stanford, and the players that he was getting at Stanford were easy to develop. When he left Palo Alto, he went to San Francisco where he then didn't have to recruit and develop. He then went to Michigan where he wasn't pulling Stanford kids anymore. He had to recruit against the other national powers and he's done well, but he hasn't been able to develop anybody. He's fine as an in-game coach, but as a development guy, the entire batch has been substandard.

Shea Patterson was the god damn #4 overall recruit in the damn country. And you turned him into a broken wreck of a player. Don't tell me he hasn't had high rated QBs.

[Jaegybomb]

18 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

#2 Receivers in the playoffs:

Seahawks: DK Metcalf

Eagles: Nelson Agholor

Vikings: Adam Thielen

Saints: Tedd Ginn Jr

Packers: Allen Lazard

49ers: Deebo Samuel

Titans: Corey Davis (AJ Brown as the #1)

Patriots: Phillip Dorsett

Bills: Cole Beasley

Texans: Will Fuller

Chiefs: Sammy Watkins

Ravens: Willy Snead (Hollywood Brown as the #1)

Of the 12 teams in the playoffs:

4 have rookies as either #1 or #2 WRs (AJ Brown, Hollywood Brown, DK Metcalf, Deebo Samuel)

5 have journeymen: Agholor, Ginn, Dorsett, Beasley, Watkins (discounting Snead and Davis because I used AJ and Hollywood above)

1 has a nobody: Allen Lazard

2 have pretty darn good players that were hurt: Thielen and Fuller

It was a pretty fluke year for rookies.

[Jaegybomb]

How the hell is Watkins making 21 this year? That's a no go. Are there any rumors of WRs on the trade block?

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Jaegybomb said:

It was a pretty fluke year for rookies.

Moore, Ridley, and Sutton all produced very well the year before that in an absolutely terrible wide receiver class.

 

[Golfman]

35 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

A HC does little for day to day development of his players. That's a position coach and coordinators more often than not.

Michigan gets athletes, Gary might be the best 280+ athlete in the history of football. Michigan didn't do a damn thing with him. Wisconsin gets 3* kids like Taylor and Watt's and their S&C programs turn them into studs. The entire Michigan program is lackluster. 

You haven't watched them against Ohio State then have you? There are athletes, and plus athletes. OSU, Alabama, Clemson and a few others get a 6-10+ athletes every year. Michigan as you pointed out, gets 1 a year if they are lucky and in rare years they get 2. You can say they did nothing to develop him, yet he was our first round pick #12 overall. We haven't done much to develop him at this point either. 

Maybe it's the kid not the coach(es) in this case. I hope not but to date he's not blossomed into the #1 recruit out of high school Again, high school ratings are a joke. 

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, Golfman said:

You haven't watched them against Ohio State then have you? There are athletes, and plus athletes. OSU, Alabama, Clemson and a few others get a 6-10+ athletes every year. Michigan as you pointed out, gets 1 a year if they are lucky and in rare years they get 2. You can say they did nothing to develop him, yet he was our first round pick #12 overall. We haven't done much to develop him at this point either. 

Maybe it's the kid not the coach(es) in this case. I hope not but to date he's not blossomed into the #1 recruit out of high school Again, high school ratings are a joke. 

I'm honest to god stunned that anybody who has watched any Michigan football doesn't see the long history of subpar talent development. 

I don't know even know how this is arguable: 

You got taken to OT by Army.

You got handed a 21 point loss by Wisconsin that wasn't as close as the final score.

You scored 10 points against Iowa.

Those aren't schools that are killing you based on athletes. 

[Golfman]

25 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Bush was the #312 recruit in the class. He wasn't some monster player coming out of high school.

Michigan got it's *** kicked by Wisconsin this year in embarrassing fashion. Don't tell me it's not because they don't have athletes. Michigan's recruting rankings from 2016-2018 vs Wisconsin (8/35, 5/39, 22/46).

I'm looking at the players getting drafted, and the only thing coming out of Michigan right now IS raw athletes. They're not producing finished products, that's why they're not getting drafted.

Harbaugh was successful at Stanford when he was forced into a very specific way of coaching. The development had to be elite at Stanford, and the players that he was getting at Stanford were easy to develop. When he left Palo Alto, he went to San Francisco where he then didn't have to recruit and develop. He then went to Michigan where he wasn't pulling Stanford kids anymore. He had to recruit against the other national powers and he's done well, but he hasn't been able to develop anybody. He's fine as an in-game coach, but as a development guy, the entire batch has been substandard.

Shea Patterson was the god damn #4 overall recruit in the damn country. And you turned him into a broken wreck of a player. Don't tell me he hasn't had high rated QBs.

You just made my point! He didn't have to recruit which is his problem! He did have to develop players and a system that worked for them. Colin Kaepernick anybody? 

Shea Patterson went to Ole Miss for 2 years and transferred. He wasn't that good! You keep referring to 'ratings' that are so bad when a kid is coming out of high school. 

Take a look at the top 15, for instance, in the 2015 class: https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool 

[Golfman]

2 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I'm honest to god stunned that anybody who has watched any Michigan football doesn't see the long history of subpar talent development. 

I don't know even know how this is arguable: 

You got taken to OT by Army.

You got handed a 21 point loss by Wisconsin that wasn't as close as the final score.

You scored 10 points against Iowa.

Those aren't schools that are killing you based on athletes. 

Whoa there mister! You keep using the term, "YOU"! I live here but can't stand the University of Michigan. Most arrogant fans on the planet. 

Since 2010 Michigan has had 37 players drafted into the NFL. Three of them have been really good NFL players. Several never made any impression whatsoever. If they are getting all of these great athletes, they would be averaging more than 3.7 draft picks a year. 

Alabama has had 80 and 40+ of those were drafted in round 1 or 2. 

Ohio State has had 60 and 26 have been drafted in round 1 or 2. Since Harbaugh arrived in AA they have had 19 players drafted in round 1 or 2. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Michigan_Wolverines_in_the_NFL_draft

[AlexGreen#20]

2 minutes ago, Golfman said:

You just made my point! He didn't have to recruit which is his problem! He did have to develop players and a system that worked for them. Colin Kaepernick anybody? 

Shea Patterson went to Ole Miss for 2 years and transferred. He wasn't that good! You keep referring to 'ratings' that are so bad when a kid is coming out of high school. 

Take a look at the top 15, for instance, in the 2015 class: https://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=highschool 

Top 15:

Thompson: UDFA played for the Browns. In the XFL

Ivey: UDFA played for the Patriots. Never the same after a torn meniscus. In the XFL

Kahlil McKenzie: 6th round pick. In the XFL

Derwin James: 1st round pick. Phenomenal player

Iman Marshall: 4th round pick. Currently on the Ravens

Josh Sweat: 4th round pick. Currently on the Eagles. Would have gone much higher if not for a degenerative knee

Bryon Cowart: 5th round pick. Currently on the Patriots.

Terry Buckner Jr: Picked up as a UDFA by the Bucs. Failed a drug test and got released.

Kevin Tolliver: UDFA, currently on the Bears and playing some.

Donte Jackson: 2nd round pick by the Panthers. Decent player

Cece Jefferson: Went undrafted.

Malik Jefferson: 3rd round pick. Currently on the Chargers

Jarrett Stidham: 4th round pick. Probably starting for the Patriots this year.

Deon Cain: 6th round pick. Currently on the Steelers

Rasheem Greene: 3rd round pick. Currently starting on the Seahawks

 

 

I see 10 guys in the NFL?

[AlexGreen#20]

3 minutes ago, Golfman said:

Whoa there mister! You keep using the term, "YOU"! I live here but can't stand the University of Michigan. Most arrogant fans on the planet. 

Since 2010 Michigan has had 37 players drafted into the NFL. Three of them have been really good NFL players. Several never made any impression whatsoever. If they are getting all of these great athletes, they would be averaging more than 3.7 draft picks a year. 

Alabama has had 80 and 40+ of those were drafted in round 1 or 2. 

Ohio State has had 60 and 26 have been drafted in round 1 or 2. Since Harbaugh arrived in AA they have had 19 players drafted in round 1 or 2. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Michigan_Wolverines_in_the_NFL_draft

Since 2010 Wisconsin has also had 37 players drafted into the NFL. 

Michigan is 85-44

Wisconsin is 102-34

Those are with very comparable schedules. Michigan is just doing less with more. 

[MaximusGluteus]

....................

Edited April 6, 2020 by MaximusGluteus

[Joe]

16 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

I watched Chase Young on tape for s & g's. No reason that couldn't have been Gary, Chase is not as athletic, he's just extremely well coached. Comparing it to Gary's tape where he doesn't know how to use his hands or anything in regards to counter moves, UM's defensive staff sucks.

This...all of it...

exactly my thoughts on Gary coming out. He's a lump of clay that a good DC buffeted by good positional coaches can mold into a masterpiece. People keep forgetting that about Gary and they keep forgetting about Mike Smith's track record as a positional coach as well(see Dee Ford and Justin Houston).

[Arthur Penske]

Pleasing

 

 

[pacman5252]

On 3/22/2020 at 6:39 PM, Jaegybomb said:

It was a pretty fluke year for rookies.

There has been a trend of more rookie wrs coming in and contributing. With that said, at least in the short term we are going to lose ota’s this year and possibly camp. The more cognitive positions might have trouble (wr, qb, c, S, ilb)