Lets Discuss All Things Wrestling - Even The T-Shirt Company AEW!

[wgbeethree]

I don't know who is in to blame for this but there's one thing I'm pretty positive of. 

CM Punk is the type of guy who complains that everywhere he goes smells really bad without once considering the actual reason is because he stepped in ****.

[StLunatic88]

42 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

Please point me to these statements that weren't just Dave and Alvarez on their podcast playing CYA - and yeah, Brian's tone and word choice very much suggested that - he was willing to admit fault in front of his peers (the scrum) but no in front of his audience; that's two-faced as hell.

Dave, Alverez, SRS and others have all said they got their info elsewhere than the Elite leaking it to them. If we just arent going to believe people because we dont like the answer, then what are we doing here?

45 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

I'm not the only one who felt that Page's promo when he made it on the eve of the Punk/Page title match was beyond weird.  It was a borderline heel promo, save for the fact that the chosen words did nothing to push the opponent as a babyface.

I am well aware of where Punk thinks this all started, but do you think Hangman just walked out there and said those things completely unprovoked? You really believe that your self-proclaimed "surly Phil Brooks" (possibly the nicest way you could describe him) had no hand in why he would feel that way? So strongly that he would go off script on live TV to get that point across?

Page definitely went into business for himself against Punk there, no one has argued that, only thing anyone said about that was Page clearly thought he was doing it as the shield to the company and for guys who dont have stroke to stand up to Punk themselves. Does that make it right? Still probably no, but Ill say atleast he didnt do it like a whiny baby. 

54 minutes ago, Dr LBC said:

We don't know who threw the first punch - we don't (I'm not putting stock in either Punk's side - that Matt threw first and missed - or the Elite side - that Punk threw first). 

We have a very good idea, and that stems from the very obvious distinction of how this is being handled. The clear aggressor is being delt with differently than EVERYONE else involved in the incident, which includes people who have been identified as ones just trying to break it up, who then got wrangled into the altercation. Keep trying to live with your head buried in the sand here man. All signs point to it being Punk/Ace who started the physical side of this. And thats where the real issue begins. Its not 2005 any more, its definitely not 1990 or 1980 anymore. Fights in the locker rooms just arent tolerated, nor should they be. Arguments are one thing, and you make good points of how the Elite guys should have been better about how they went about it, But so should have Punk.

The Highest Paid guy in the Company is going to sit a be a cry baby about something from months ago that no one remembered or talked about until he decided to also go into business for himself? He really has such a fragile ego that he cant let that go? And has to try to embarrass one of the biggest babyfaces in the company? He says he was forced to "stoop" to that level, which is more BS from him. Its not the first time hes done it, and probably wont be the last.

And even after all of that, none of this was a thing until Punk walked himself into that Scrum Sunday night with a clear AGENDA to stir this up, to take pot shots at people who werent even there anymore.

1 hour ago, Dr LBC said:

A whole lot of egos got out of line in this - and a whole lot of egos, I believe, grossly over-estimated what they'd be allowed to get away with - for varying reasons (and some similar - namely the draws of all talent involved).

 

There is for sure some end of life WCW vibes going on here, from everyone involved. I really hope they can clean it up quickly and focus on what they are actually good at with their original talent.

1 hour ago, Dr LBC said:

Now do I believe for a second that the Jacksons just politely knocked on Punk's locker room door until let in by someone, then stood at a distance calmly stating their case, and even if/when closed down by Punk tried to de-escalate only to then get thrown on?  Not for a second, and if you believe that, sorry, there's no other way to put it but your mark is showing (and I think I know you better than that). 

1 hour ago, Dr LBC said:

My point is, if you're going to lump blame in this, going to just who you perceive as being the source of the initial jump-off moment doesn't do justice and isn't correct.  You either lump everyone involved as having blame or no one.  And the later does nothing to reach any sort of solution that does the company any good whatsoever.

Dude, youre arguing something I have never said. I have never once said that the Jacksons or Kenny arent at fault here, but thier fault really only lies with being unprofessional and grade a douchbags. It is very surprising to me that you cant see the clear line of demarcation that everyone else is drawing here.

[StLunatic88]

41 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Allegedly Punk needs surgery. SMFH.

Should've kept the title on Mox.

It looked like it in the match, I think JR even called it out

One thing I really dont think AEW has the ability to do very well is improvise mid match. Thats as a company as a whole, not on any specific talent.

[Mox]

4 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

It looked like it in the match, I think JR even called it out

One thing I really dont think AEW has the ability to do very well is improvise mid match. Thats as a company as a whole, not on any specific talent.

Yeah, it was a tope during the match apparently.

[StLunatic88]

8 minutes ago, Bullet Club said:

Yeah, it was a tope during the match apparently.

If he knew he was hurt again, may have been the impetus for him to start going scorched earth during the scrum. Especially since most of that wasnt prompted by any question by any of the reporters that night.

 

[Jeezla]

AEW should just have Wardlow unify the TNT and Heavyweight title, then do a tourney for a new TNT champion, culminating in a fatal 4-way between Hobbs, Starks, Bryan Danielson, and Miro to decide a new TNT champ. Wardlow should feud with MJF, Kenny, and Punk depending what happens with him.

Curious what direction they go with House of Black. Brody King looks like someone who should have a run as AEW champ down the line, but they'll probably just make Brody and Buddy another Butcher and Blade level tag team that never wins the belts. Not sure what Lance Archer is doing these days, but he'd make sense as a Malakai replacement if they want House of Black competing in trios matches. 

[Dr LBC]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Dude, youre arguing something I have never said. I have never once said that the Jacksons or Kenny arent at fault here, but thier fault really only lies with being unprofessional and grade a douchbags. It is very surprising to me that you cant see the clear line of demarcation that everyone else is drawing here.

Part of it has to do with the idol worship that some (not you, but the people in this thread that I'm referring to know who they are) have for Kenny and the Bucks; very good wrestlers if you're into new age wrestling that eschews certain tried and true marks of the craft in order to "get their stuff in," but the GOAT they ain't (and I don't think Punk is now or was in his prime either, so folks shouldn't even bother bringing that argument against me).  And said idol worship has seemed to allow for giving them a pass for them and, especially, some of their friends not only shining, but acting offended to even receive advice from veterans who have been there, drawn the money consistent, run the shows because it runs contrary to what they think or requires them to accept criticism.

I genuinely loathe agreeing with Disco Inferno, but the dude has been pretty spot-on in this whole thing (aside from putting Russo over and suggesting Tony call and ask him for advice).

But from a pure business perspective, and thus far I've heard Disco, Konnan, Booker T, etc. all point out and center the conversation on the one driving principle: The money.  What Punk did was effed up - in terms of shooting and burying talent on a hot mic.  I'd make a case that burying the Jacksons and Kenny as EVP's may be a bit more deserved than burying Hangman as a talent (who is still due some criticism but it should have been handled behind closed doors).  His gripe, in large, appears to be with the dirtsheet writers (even the well-known ones) who get one side of a story and run with it.  To a very valid point he had, that's not journalism, that's editorial.  It's not like Dave or Alvarez or Sapp don't have multiple ways to contact Punk to ask for a comment - and Brian even admitted fault in as much.  And even as deserving of burial as executives as I feel the Elite may be, again, you don't do it publicly, especially next to the guy who hired them to said positions because you're effectively burying your boss there.  It was a power play, I'd contend on similar level to ones the Bucks have made in the past (even on-camera), but I'm sure I'll get disagreement on that.

Tony needs to grow some balls, but at the same time, I feel like some people need to be a bit realistic that this squabble does very much feel like some of the AEW originals are a bit bitter that they're losing their hold on their money mark bankroll to guys who are bigger mainstream draws.  And I don't care how much people want to cling to the notion that it won't matter because AEW's hardcore fans will keep them afloat - your ability to put mainstream stars and make mainstream stars is going to have a strong influence on a company's ability to maintain and increase revenue from a major cable conglomerate.  Jericho hit it on the head in his part of scrum, and I think if you ever got him to be 100% honest (which he likely won't do presently - and shouldn't do because he shouldn't bury the company he works for), ECW had more intriguing storylines and arguably at least as-good talent and they couldn't get anything above a deal with Ted Turner's 4th-tier network.

[beekay414]

Garcia needs to hit the gym harder. My dude can barely pull off a suplex. 

[Mox]

3 hours ago, Jeezla said:

AEW should just have Wardlow unify the TNT and Heavyweight title, then do a tourney for a new TNT champion, culminating in a fatal 4-way between Hobbs, Starks, Bryan Danielson, and Miro to decide a new TNT champ. Wardlow should feud with MJF, Kenny, and Punk depending what happens with him.

Curious what direction they go with House of Black. Brody King looks like someone who should have a run as AEW champ down the line, but they'll probably just make Brody and Buddy another Butcher and Blade level tag team that never wins the belts. Not sure what Lance Archer is doing these days, but he'd make sense as a Malakai replacement if they want House of Black competing in trios matches. 

Wardlow is not ready to be world champ, and isn't hot at all right now. Let it be Mox vs. Bryan which will probs happen, and then MJF can win it at Full Gear so they build the belt back up again. Then Wardlow can eventually take it off MJF.

[TOUCAN]

6 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

Thank god you'll never run a company dependent on hiring talent and dealing with other multi-million dollar corporations

Please make a case on why we should keep the biting chair thrower on staff.

I don’t like ANY of these guys, but you cannot make a good argument to keep Ace.

[Dr LBC]

4 hours ago, JoshstraDaymus said:

Please make a case on why we should keep the biting chair thrower on staff.

I don’t like ANY of these guys, but you cannot make a good argument to keep Ace.

Because he still has benefit as someone who has actually been there (in terms of producers go and being able to handle actual indie guys)... and probably most important because without him one of your biggest grossing draws likely walks.  At this point he's on the same par as Cutler or Nokazawa.  He doesn't have a heck of a lot of actual "worth" other than he keeps one of your biggest draws happy, but he (not-so-arguably) has great utility than either of those guys.

[Dr LBC]

4 hours ago, Bullet Club said:

Wardlow is not ready to be world champ, and isn't hot at all right now. Let it be Mox vs. Bryan which will probs happen, and then MJF can win it at Full Gear so they build the belt back up again. Then Wardlow can eventually take it off MJF.

And to be honest, I'd contend in terms of a greater long-term build, Darby or Jungle Boy (but probably Darby because he's closer) should be the one to take it off Max.  If you're going to have someone you've defined as a "pillar" lose the belt, it should be to either a babyface pillar or to a known commodity so that you don't cause your pillar to lose face.  If thus if Max loses, it should arguably be to Miro or Claudio if it isn't another AEW pillar.

But yes, I like Wardlow and think he has a lot of promise and future to him.  However, what often gets massively overlooked in the Goldberg ascension is that he had a MASSIVE amount of veteran, quality workers at many levels to help put him over, from jobber to main-eventer.  The prime AEW audience (and Tony, for good or bad) seems to expect minimum 20+ minute matches from anything of significance.  Barring him turning into in-ring, "bad" Roman I'm not sure Wardlow's ready for that as a single, and I'm fairly confident AEW doesn't have the workers (including those who are willing to do the job) to do the lion's share of legwork to carry him to those lengths (it's not as easy as one would think when you've not just selling, but workman-selling).

Edited September 8, 2022 by Dr LBC

[Dr LBC]

4 hours ago, beekay414 said:

Garcia needs to hit the gym harder. My dude can barely pull off a suplex. 

He can do it.  I'd contend he's someone that most vet ought to be sandbagging on principle so that he actually does hit the gym.  And that has been done before, including to guys that were on the indies.  There's a reason why Sammy's quads damn near doubled in the span of a year and a half

[TOUCAN]

4 hours ago, Dr LBC said:

Because he still has benefit as someone who has actually been there (in terms of producers go and being able to handle actual indie guys)... and probably most important because without him one of your biggest grossing draws likely walks.  At this point he's on the same par as Cutler or Nokazawa.  He doesn't have a heck of a lot of actual "worth" other than he keeps one of your biggest draws happy, but he (not-so-arguably) has great utility than either of those guys.

Handle Indy guys? He threw a chair and bit a dude. He can’t even handle himself lol.

[TOUCAN]

Point is: as far as expendable people goes, Ace is indeed that guy.