LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 hours ago, Mind Character said: Question: Should we pay Vernon 15 Million only guaranteed if we don't cut him before week 1 -OR- Should we be on the hook for 54 Million Guaranteed? That 54 Million is the minimum of what it will take to get Ngakoue. Yannick Ngakoue's projected market value according to spotrac is 17 million avg salary with over 54 Million GTD at signing (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville-jaguars/yannick-ngakoue-19018/market-value/ ). That's the type of money DEs get. Long years; Big GTD money; Huge Cap Hits; Huge Avg annual salary. The Zadarious Smith and Trey Flowers contracts were more last off-season. Ngakoue doesn't play the run all that well and is more of a pass rush specialist. Chiefs won't let Chris Jones out the building. He'll be franchised if no longterm deal is made. If we went after him he'd have to be paid a top 3 DT contract in the league. I'd love it but he's not making it to market. Armstead is 34 DE or 43 NT and doesn't generate pass rush from the outside like that. He takes plays off and isn't the best football character guy. He's having a break out season in a contract year. He's exactly the type of that is uber risky to pay and believe you'll get production out of after. We only owe Vernon 15 mil in salary meaning that as long as we cut at the end of the years we're off the hook going forward. I'd love to upgrade over Vernon, but now's just not the time. Ngakoue isn't worth the money he'll get much like Trey Flowers wasn't when he got his money from Detroit. Maybe we get Epenesa or Okwara but likely we have to spend that draft capital on an OLineman Keeping Vernon and hoping he plays healthy then cutting him after next season is more of a viable market. We have too many holes to fill and not enough resources to fill them in order t cut Vernon right now imo. I think the goal is a mid tier guy and a draft pick to develop. I don’t think he’s a must cut or anything, but I feel confident we can get solid run defense and a middling pass rush for less than 15 million. He also hasn’t played anything close to a full season the last 3 years, so I guess we have to hope he gets injured less with age as well. Christ, between he and Richardson we’re on the hook for almost 29 million for two guys who are decent at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) Mock - Comprehensive Value Maximization Approach to Roster Building 2020: It's important that Free Agency and the Draft work in harmony so that a team can use the draft to acquire as many impact players as possible. To me, you don't pass on certain high quality players in order to fill needs at other positions. This draft has the most talented WR prospect pool in history. The WRs potentially available in Round 4 will be head and shoulders above other players at different positions in terms of high level impact ability. We have to hit on a wide variety of targets in Free Agency so that we don't have the pressure of and/or make the mistake of drafting based on need. Team Needs: RT, RG, LT, TE, WR on Offense and a FS, SS, DE, LB, DT on Defense. Needs Addressed in Free Agency: OG, SS; LB; Depth OT-Swing with Starter Upside, Needs Addressed in Draft: LT; RT; WR; TE Remaining Needs Not Addressed in Free Agency of the Draft: RT, RG, LT, TE, WR on Offense and a FS, SS, DE, LB, DT on Defense. ------ Free Agency: 1.) Jimmie Ward, SS-Hybrid 49ers 2.) Joe Thuney, RG New England Patriots -- OR -- Graham Glasgow, RG Detroit Lions 3.) Marcus Mariota, QB Tennessee Titans 4.) Joe Schobert, LB Cleveland Browns 5.) Joe Haeg, OG Indianapolis Colts 6.) Halapoulivaati Vaitai, OT Eagles 7.) Jarran Reed, DT Seahawks 8.) A'Shawn Robinson, DT Lions 9.) Ronald Blair, DE 49ers ------- Taking the Best Players/Starter Quality Draft: ;1.) Jedrick Wills Jr., OT Alabama 2.) Prince Tega-Wanogho, LT Auburn *** 2.) Jalen Reager, WR TCU (***TRADE*** a 3rd Rounder to move up form our 1st 3rd to Mid-2nd Rounder) 3.) ***TRADED*** 4.) Denzel Mims, WR Baylor *** 5.) Harrison Bryant, TE FIU (***TRADE*** our last 7th round pick and a future later rounder to move from the 6th into the 5th Round to take Harrison Bryant, TE FIU) 6.) **TRADED*** 7.) Josiah Deguara, TE/HB/FB Cincinnati 7.) **TRADED**---- -------------The 53: Offense: QBs: Baker Mayfield // Marcus Mariota // 3rd QB RB: Nick Chubb // Kareem Hunt // Developmental RB FB: (Josiah Deguara) WR: Odell Beckham Jr. // Jarvis Landry // Jalen Reager // Denzel Mims // Khadarel Hodge // Taywon Taylor // Damion Ratley TE: David Njoku // Harrison Bryant // Ricky Seals Jones // Josiah Deguara LT: Prince Tega-Wanogho // Halapoulivaati Vaitai, LG: Joel Bitonio // (Drew Forbes) // Wyatt Teller // Eric Kush OC: J.C. Tretter // Willie Wright RG: Joe Thuney // Joe Haeg // Justin McCray RT: Jedrick WIlls Jr. // Drew Forbes // Kendall Lamm Defense DE: Olivier Vernon // Chad Thomas DT: Sheldon RIchardson // Jarran Reed // Daniel Ekuale NT: Larry Ogunjobi // A'Shawn Robinson // Justin Zimmer DE: Myles Garrett // Ronald Blair LB: Sione Takitaki LB: Joe Schobert LB: Mack Wilson // Willie Harvey CB: Denzel Ward // Tavierre Thomas CB: Greedy Williams // Terrance Mitchell NCB: TJ Carrie FS: Sheldrick Redwine // Eric Murray SS: Jimme Ward /// Juston Burris Edited January 2, 2020 by Mind Character 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 With this draft as deep as I’ve ever seen at WR, I’d love to get a solid OT in Round 1 and see which of those WR falls to Round 2-3 and grab him. I’d prefer a bigger bodied guy who would be an immediate Red Zone threat, or whichever Round 1 graded guy falls. I want to get 2-3 replacement level player veterans via free agency at the safety and RG positions, and perhaps even DE opposite of Myles. I would go BPA Round 1, but I like the OT from UGA and wouldn’t turn down the kid from Bama either. Its obvious to me that we should bring in a veteran to subtly push Baker in the off-season and practice while standing by him as our starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 I’m all in on getting this OL fixed. Gimme a T in R1, G in R2. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
braylon Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I’m all in on getting this OL fixed. Gimme a T in R1, G in R2. Yeah, I think I'd prefer one tackle in FA and then the other tackle in the draft, as well as a guard. I don't know if it's really logical, but I don't think I want both our starting tackles to be rookies. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnies20 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: Mock - Comprehensive Value Maximization Approach to Roster Building 2020: It's important that Free Agency and the Draft work in harmony so that a team can use the draft to acquire as many impact players as possible. To me, you don't pass on certain high quality players in order to fill needs at other positions. This draft has the most talented WR prospect pool in history. The WRs potentially available in Round 4 will be head and shoulders above other players at different positions in terms of high level impact ability. We have to hit on a wide variety of targets in Free Agency so that we don't have the pressure of and/or make the mistake of drafting based on need. Team Needs: RT, RG, LT, TE, WR on Offense and a FS, SS, DE, LB, DT on Defense. Needs Addressed in Free Agency: OG, SS; LB; Depth OT-Swing with Starter Upside, Needs Addressed in Draft: LT; RT; WR; TE Remaining Needs Not Addressed in Free Agency of the Draft: RT, RG, LT, TE, WR on Offense and a FS, SS, DE, LB, DT on Defense. ------ Free Agency: 1.) Jimmie Ward, SS-Hybrid 49ers 2.) Joe Thuney, RG New England Patriots -- OR -- Graham Glasgow, RG Detroit Lions 3.) Marcus Mariota, QB Tennessee Titans 4.) Joe Schobert, LB Cleveland Browns 5.) Joe Haeg, OG Indianapolis Colts 6.) Halapoulivaati Vaitai, OT Eagles 7.) Jarran Reed, DT Seahawks 8.) A'Shawn Robinson, DT Lions 9.) Ronald Blair, DE 49ers ------- Taking the Best Players/Starter Quality Draft: ;1.) Jedrick Wills Jr., OT Alabama 2.) Prince Tega-Wanogho, LT Auburn *** 2.) Jalen Reager, WR TCU (***TRADE*** a 3rd Rounder to move up form our 1st 3rd to Mid-2nd Rounder) 3.) ***TRADED*** 4.) Denzel Mims, WR Baylor *** 5.) Harrison Bryant, TE FIU (***TRADE*** our last 7th round pick and a future later rounder to move from the 6th into the 5th Round to take Harrison Bryant, TE FIU) 6.) **TRADED*** 7.) Josiah Deguara, TE/HB/FB Cincinnati 7.) **TRADED**---- -------------The 53: Offense: QBs: Baker Mayfield // Marcus Mariota // 3rd QB RB: Nick Chubb // Kareem Hunt // Developmental RB FB: (Josiah Deguara) WR: Odell Beckham Jr. // Jarvis Landry // Jalen Reager // Denzel Mims // Khadarel Hodge // Taywon Taylor // Damion Ratley TE: David Njoku // Harrison Bryant // Ricky Seals Jones // Josiah Deguara LT: Prince Tega-Wanogho // Halapoulivaati Vaitai, LG: Joel Bitonio // (Drew Forbes) // Wyatt Teller // Eric Kush OC: J.C. Tretter // Willie Wright RG: Joe Thuney // Joe Haeg // Justin McCray RT: Jedrick WIlls Jr. // Drew Forbes // Kendall Lamm Defense DE: Olivier Vernon // Chad Thomas DT: Sheldon RIchardson // Jarran Reed // Daniel Ekuale NT: Larry Ogunjobi // A'Shawn Robinson // Justin Zimmer DE: Myles Garrett // Ronald Blair LB: Sione Takitaki LB: Joe Schobert LB: Mack Wilson // Willie Harvey CB: Denzel Ward // Tavierre Thomas CB: Greedy Williams // Terrance Mitchell NCB: TJ Carrie FS: Sheldrick Redwine // Eric Murray SS: Jimme Ward /// Juston Burris Thank you for putting Jalen Reagor in there. Other than that it’s terrible. If we sign Mariota I’ll gouge my eyes out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Thank you for putting Jalen Reagor in there. Other than that it’s terrible. If we sign Mariota I’ll gouge my eyes out. I don’t love Marcus Mariota by any means but we do need some sort of veteran, capable quarterback behind Mayfield. As for the draft, our most obvious need is on the offensive line, clearly. In the perfect world, hitting on an offensive tackle in the first round is ideal. Beyond that, we could use some more help, but we could also use good players at a lot of different positions. I wouldn’t mind if we signed a quality starting guard at least to shore up that position prior to the draft. Then another mid round guard to fill out the depth/to develop would be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 minute ago, braylon said: Yeah, I think I'd prefer one tackle in FA and then the other tackle in the draft, as well as a guard. I don't know if it's really logical, but I don't think I want both our starting tackles to be rookies. I don’t disagree. I would love a decent RT in FA and plug in the rookies at LT and RG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, pnies20 said: Thank you for putting Jalen Reagor in there. Other than that it’s terrible. If we sign Mariota I’ll gouge my eyes out. Mariota isn’t great, but by all accounts he’s an exceptionally high character dude with a great work ethic. We could use more of those guys and someone to push Baker on a daily basis like Tuh-Rod did. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Yeah I wouldn't be opposed at all to bringing in Mariota. He's not particularly good, but you could do far worse as a backup. Plus, maybe a change of scenery will help him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 11 minutes ago, DawgX said: Yeah I wouldn't be opposed at all to bringing in Mariota. He's not particularly good, but you could do far worse as a backup. Plus, maybe a change of scenery will help him. Completely agree Much like Tannehill seems to have resurrected his career playing in Tennessee, by replacing Mariotta, I could see Marcus, ironically, moving on and being successful somewhere else. Let's not forget how awful Tannehill looked as the Miami QB. The change of scenery has done him well thus far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 minute ago, big poppa pump said: Completely agree Much like Tannehill seems to have resurrected his career playing in Tennessee, by replacing Mariotta, I could see Marcus, ironically, moving on and being successful somewhere else. Let's not forget how awful Tannehill looked as the Miami QB. The change of scenery has done him well thus far. I've always thought more highly of Tannehill than Mariota. Hell, I wanted us to draft him the year he came into the league. As for Mariota, I have a feeling he's peaked, but it's certainly possible he could improve on a new team. But even if he doesn't improve, he'd still be one of the best backups in the league and would be a good QB to have in the QB room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 15 minutes ago, DawgX said: I've always thought more highly of Tannehill than Mariota. Hell, I wanted us to draft him the year he came into the league. As for Mariota, I have a feeling he's peaked, but it's certainly possible he could improve on a new team. But even if he doesn't improve, he'd still be one of the best backups in the league and would be a good QB to have in the QB room. See, I always thought Tannehill was a bum, and that Marcus was going to be good. Either way, you are correct in saying that Mariotta would be an above average backup, and would push Baker to be his best. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: I think the goal is a mid tier guy and a draft pick to develop. I don’t think he’s a must cut or anything, but I feel confident we can get solid run defense and a middling pass rush for less than 15 million. He also hasn’t played anything close to a full season the last 3 years, so I guess we have to hope he gets injured less with age as well. , between he and Richardson we’re on the hook for almost 29 million for two guys who are decent at best. Indeed, that is the goal. It's just really hard to find a mid-tier guy worthy of a 3rd or 4th round draft pick in this draft prospect pool, especially when compared to players with high impact or even pro-bowl ability that are likely to be available at other position groups that have a ton of depth. The DE-class is really that scarce and shallow to the point where if we don't spend our 1st round pick (AJ Epenesa-type) or 2nd round pick (Julian Okwara-type) the rest of the guys would be taking one just to take one because it's a need. In that case, I have no issue taking a late round developmental guy, but you can't depend on that type of rookie to be a guy. In Free agency (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/defensive-end/) , it's a tough class. We can go out and break the bank 54 Mil GTD or more for guys like Yannick Ngakoue or Jadaveon Clowney. We can go out and Pay 30-34 Mil GTD for a guy like Robert Quinn We could go budget shopping and pay 15 Mil to 30 Mil GTD for Jabaal Sheard, Michael Bennett, Vic Beasley, Shaq Lawson, Ronald Blair, or Emmanuel Ogbah. I opted for a Ronald Blair type, but those guys will require more investment than Olivier Vernon who when healthy is (a big if) is a better player. Maybe there's a trade that can be made or some hidden gem in the draft that's on no one's radar. Edited January 2, 2020 by Mind Character 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 19 minutes ago, Mind Character said: Emmanuel Ogbah. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.