Week 7 GDT - Raiders (3-2) @ Packers (5-1)

[Dodo]

Fumble was inexcusable and killed any hope of winning when every possession counts. Defense was ghastly and even with Rodgers it worries me.

This isn't a bad team though.

[big_palooka]

.500 team doing .500 team things. Who's the best player on defense right now? That unit needs a lot of help.  

 

[Mr Raider]

There were certainly things to be frustrated, but there were also a lot of positives. I think BP just summed it up well. We're a .500 type team... Which is probably a little better than I thought we'd be, but we have some real building blocks on offense (Jacob's has elite potential and is already pretty damn good), Waller and Moreau look like a long term TE combination, the OL is super solid in all areas.. I'm not going to go into the Carr debate. He could be replaced with a blue chip prospect as soon as next draft or we could continue to build for another year or two and roll with him. Either is fine with me honestly. The defense has a lot of holes, but we have seen promise and growth from some young guys on that end. I hope Mullen can get some more reps, Johnson can get healthy and get some experience that could be invaluable next off season, and hopefully Abrams heals up because he can be an impact player. The rest of the guys have some good skills in certain areas at certain times, but the vast majority could stand to be replaced. But its a process and isn't done overnight. 

[Roninho]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

.500 team doing .500 team things. Who's the best player on defense right now? That unit needs a lot of help.  

 

Yes agree, imo we are a .500 team and our D needs a lot of help.

But i'm actually quite positive about this season.

We ended last year 4-12 with a bad defense and a bad offense.

We are currently 3-3 and we have played these teams. I have taken our game out of their W-L.

Lost:
Packers 5-1
Chiefs 4-2
Vikings 4-2

Won:
Colts    4-1
Bears     3-2
Broncos 2-4

That is a pretty strong group we have played. Imo going 3-3 is a big improvement.

Then if you look at our team i see an offense that has a good building block for the next 2-3 years with an improved o-line and we found Waller and Jacobs. It is a shame the Brown deal did not work out because his talent on this team would fit exactly what our O could use to be above average (imo we will never be special on O with Carr as QB).

Now the D is the next part of the team to build on. We allready did that with Ferrel and Abrams, but one hasnt shown much and the other is injured. Imo with our picks and the $ we will have for FA's we should be able to have a similar turnaround.

Imagine this D plus drafting a Jacobs like impact player on D, finding a Waller like defensive guy in the later rounds and adding a Trent Brown like defensive addition in FA.

Once we have done that the question becomes what do we do with Carr. What i expect from our FO is that we roll with Carr unless a college QB our FO really believes in falls into our lap in the 1st round. Carr is a mid pack starting QB who is paid $10 million less then a top 10 QB will now demand when signing a new contract. You only upgrade that when you see someone who really is worth it. I don't see us giving up much draft capital in the next draft, maybe in a year or 2 when our team is better overall.

[dante9876]

9 hours ago, big_palooka said:

.500 team doing .500 team things. Who's the best player on defense right now? That unit needs a lot of help.  

 

Better question is who is the worst. Is it our top 4 pick that's losing snaps to max crosby. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by dante9876

[big_palooka]

Just now, dante9876 said:

Better question is who is the worse. Is it our top 4 pick that's losing snaps to max crosby. 

Crosby is a blessing for a 4th round pick.

Ferrell starting to get worried after today. I don't expect him to win with speed or explosion, but he's not even getting a push right now. He might as well sat out another week, that's how much he was noticed in the game.

[OG_C2X]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

Crosby is a blessing for a 4th round pick.

Ferrell starting to get worried after today. I don't expect him to win with speed or explosion, but he's not even getting a push right now. He might as well sat out another week, that's how much he was noticed in the game.

Crosby played 42 snaps
Ferrell played 37 snaps
Mauro played 33 snaps
Mayowa played 20 snaps

For me the problem is that Mauro and Mayowa are getting any snaps, on good teams those guys are special team players, not rotational pieces. those 53 snaps need to be redistributed between Crosby, Ferrell, and a good speed rushing specialist.

The Ideal split would be:
Ferrell - 55
Crosby - 50
Speed Rusher - 27

Ferrell will come along. We need to have some patience, and curb our expectations with Ferrell. He wasn't drafted to get 15+ sacks a year. He was drafted to play most of the defensive snaps, be stout against the run, provide some push in the pass rush and lead by example in changing the culture within the locker room to a WINNING one.. He was never drafted to be THE pass rush.

[dante9876]

21 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

Crosby played 42 snaps
Ferrell played 37 snaps
Mauro played 33 snaps
Mayowa played 20 snaps

For me the problem is that Mauro and Mayowa are getting any snaps, on good teams those guys are special team players, not rotational pieces. those 53 snaps need to be redistributed between Crosby, Ferrell, and a good speed rushing specialist.

The Ideal split would be:
Ferrell - 55
Crosby - 50
Speed Rusher - 27

Ferrell will come along. We need to have some patience, and curb our expectations with Ferrell. He wasn't drafted to get 15+ sacks a year. He was drafted to play most of the defensive snaps, be stout against the run, provide some push in the pass rush and lead by example in changing the culture within the locker room to a WINNING one.. He was never drafted to be THE pass rush.

He hasnt been stout against the run.  And if we drafted a guy for locker room culture in the top 4, but traded 3. Picks for brown and bryant. That's crazy. Its very hard to lead when you not performing. You want ferrell to get more snaps. I'm sure the staff does to. But they cant cause he is bad right now. 

 

Remember how hype people was in the offseason cause our dline coach made some cool quotes and talk big on hard knocks. All of the sudden he was a really great coach. Is he not as good as people thought or is Ferrell the nfl ready prospect way further away than we thought. 

[Chali21]

I think this game has really cemented the Raiders need for a pass rusher i can really see them trading for a guy like Beasley or Von Miller (who i would get a certain amount of satisfaction watching sack Bronco QBs.)

i think Gruden can sell his offense as being good enough to get them into playoffs if they can find a legitimate pass rusher. They probably won’t have one their firsts at the end of all this. 

[oakdb36]

40 minutes ago, OG_C2X said:

For me the problem is that Mauro and Mayowa are getting any snaps, on good teams those guys are special team players, not rotational pieces. those 53 snaps need to be redistributed between Crosby, Ferrell, and a good speed rushing specialist.

Totally disagree with that. Crosby and Ferrell are rookies, they're probably getting too many snaps already. Mayowa is our best pass rusher, he should be getting more snaps. Mauro is good against the run but some of his snaps should go to Mayowa, especially when you're playing GB (it made sense vs Ind and Chi though). Anyway, let's see what happens when we face some weaker pass blocking units.

[oakdb36]

Did you guys thought our pass rush was great coming into this game? GB has given up 12 sacks in 7 games. What made you think our pass rush would get the best of them? I wonder if GB fans think their pass rush sucks now that they couldn't get one sack on Carr. Someone has to win the matchup and both oline did in that game, just like they did for most of the season.

I'd be more worried about Conley looking so awful yesterday than our pass rush at this point.

[OG_C2X]

50 minutes ago, dante9876 said:

He hasnt been stout against the run.  And if we drafted a guy for locker room culture in the top 4, but traded 3. Picks for brown and bryant. That's crazy. Its very hard to lead when you not performing. You want ferrell to get more snaps. I'm sure the staff does to. But they cant cause he is bad right now. 

 

Remember how hype people was in the offseason cause our dline coach made some cool quotes and talk big on hard knocks. All of the sudden he was a really great coach. Is he not as good as people thought or is Ferrell the nfl ready prospect way further away than we thought. 

In the first three games he was very good vs the run and pushed the pocket on occasion. 

A locker room is comprised for 53 identical personalities. You get leaders to establish a culture so you can bring on players like Bryant and Brown and be successful with them. Gruden is impatient and needs to wait for the culture to be established before we bring those types of players in though. 

Hes 6 games into his career and has been nicked up the last 3. Lets take a second and let it play out. Trust the process as they say. 

25 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Totally disagree with that. Crosby and Ferrell are rookies, they're probably getting too many snaps already. Mayowa is our best pass rusher, he should be getting more snaps. Mauro is good against the run but some of his snaps should go to Mayowa, especially when you're playing GB (it made sense vs Ind and Chi though). Anyway, let's see what happens when we face some weaker pass blocking units.

I meant ideally. Sorry for not being clear. I understand them getting the snaps they are getting on THIS defense. While they are guys in the rotation on this bad defense. On a good defense they shouldn't get snaps. Thats what I am saying. I wish Key was the guy but he didnt play a snap yesterday and I was a huge Key guy and he has disappointed me this year. 

[oakdb36]

I think you're selling them short. Players don't stick in the league for 6/7 years without being decent rotational players. They're not game changers, obviously, but they can play a role. And when the rest of the DE group is 2 rookies and a 2nd year player, the 2 vets will get more snaps than they would in a different situation.

[dante9876]

31 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

Did you guys thought our pass rush was great coming into this game? GB has given up 12 sacks in 7 games. What made you think our pass rush would get the best of them? I wonder if GB fans think their pass rush sucks now that they couldn't get one sack on Carr. Someone has to win the matchup and both oline did in that game, just like they did for most of the season.

I'd be more worried about Conley looking so awful yesterday than our pass rush at this point.

Why do you ask that?. Nobody in here hyped the pass rush before or after this game. I dont think anybody believed it was good. This game certainly wasnt the determing factor for anybody to say oh our pass rush still isnt good. I've been on my ferrell and pass rush rant for weeks now. 

[NYRaider]

1 hour ago, OG_C2X said:

Crosby played 42 snaps
Ferrell played 37 snaps
Mauro played 33 snaps
Mayowa played 20 snaps

For me the problem is that Mauro and Mayowa are getting any snaps, on good teams those guys are special team players, not rotational pieces. those 53 snaps need to be redistributed between Crosby, Ferrell, and a good speed rushing specialist.

The Ideal split would be:
Ferrell - 55
Crosby - 50
Speed Rusher - 27

Ferrell will come along. We need to have some patience, and curb our expectations with Ferrell. He wasn't drafted to get 15+ sacks a year. He was drafted to play most of the defensive snaps, be stout against the run, provide some push in the pass rush and lead by example in changing the culture within the locker room to a WINNING one.. He was never drafted to be THE pass rush.

2

What has Ferrell shown that proves he deserves more snaps than Mauro or Mayowa? Mauro is just as good, if not better than Ferrell in run support. Mayowa has been our most productive/consistent pass rusher this year. 

No one said they expected Ferrell to be a 15+ sack guy, hell most said they just wanted 6-8 sacks with good run defense. But he was a top 5 pick and he has the lowest win rate for any edge player in the entire league... That's not good.