sdrawkcab321 Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 I’m all for McDaniels if it happens. Just don’t give him 53 man power. I have a feeling that’s who we’re going after. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dawgattack Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said: I’m all for McDaniels if it happens. Just don’t give him 53 man power. I have a feeling that’s who we’re going after. If we sign McDaniels, I'll be permanently on pins and needles wondering when in the offseason he'll decide to go back to NE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, mistakey said: Depo wanted mcdermott and stefanski . Seems like he gained power simply by being right haha Seems like a great reason to give someone more power. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Seems like a great reason to give someone more power. So u know this means he will have less power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted December 28, 2019 Share Posted December 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, mistakey said: So u know this means he will have less power Browns logic. Sigh. I wonder why depo even hangs around to be honest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 (edited) Giving Paul DePodesta more power sounds nice in theory but likely doesn't make much sense in practice so long as "more power" means final say over key personnel decisions. I do often think about what Paul DePodest and/or Sashi Brown could've accomplished if their goal was to win now. I doubt that John Dorsey would stick around if an analytics, money-ball "baseball" guy like DePo gets final say. Here's a scenario: 1.) Analytics department and DePo think Mitch Trubisky is the best QB and we should trade up for him. 2.) John Dorsey/Traditional Scouting Department think Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes should be the pick at 12 or we should trade up for them. 3.) The Head Coach likes Trubisky and Watson. Who should have final say? Here's another: 1.) Analytics department and DePo think Courtland Sutton should be the pick in the 2nd round.. 2.) John Dorsey/Traditional Scouting Department think it should be Austin Corbett. 3.) The Head Coach likes both. Who should have final say? The point is over many hundreds of football decisions, who deserve to have the final power for judgment.... --------- No matter what, I just don't think it makes much sense to give DePo final say over roster/personnel. Now, maybe he has final say over coaching searches, assistant coaches, and/or organizational hires. Maybe he also is given a bigger voice when it comes to draft time and free agency. We saw what it was like to have a President of Football Operations - Sashi Brown; a GM without final say - Andrew Berry; an Strategic Executive -- Paul DePodesta and a "football guy" HC - Hue Jackson. The real remaining question is what would've been different if the key decision-makers were in the win now mode instead of the tear down, rebuild mode? We'll never know. One things for sure: in order to have DePo have final say, Dorsey would be let go and the new GM would have to be okay giving authority to what a lot of people perceive to be a "non-football" guy. I do laugh at the image/idea of Paul DePodesta and Robot Eliot Wolf on the phone trying to recruit free agents and talk to agents. Edited December 29, 2019 by Mind Character 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Does depo want more power over thr 53 or draft picks? It wouldnt surpise me if he doesnt, rather the way the organization is built, who to pay and who not to pay. How to select players, rather than the players themselves. Also regardig the qbs we select, it wouldn't surprise if depo has learned a lot, they passed on wentz who is an mvp level qb at times while wanting say mitch, who is on the edge of being a bust. Analytics also involves self evaluating, which, is something traditionalist in football do not seem to do well. Dorsey will tank this team without a coach to bail him out, he doesnt have an Andy Reid across the table from him. Furthemore, the analytics pick was Baker, i bet, if anyone in the jpuse knows why he isnt working it is depodesta, more so than freddie, jimmy or john. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: Giving Paul DePodesta more power sounds nice in theory but likely doesn't make much sense in practice so long as "more power" means final say over key personnel decisions. I do often think about what Paul DePodest and/or Sashi Brown could've accomplished if their goal was to win now. I doubt that John Dorsey would stick around if an analytics, money-ball "baseball" guy like DePo gets final say. Here's a scenario: 1.) Analytics department and DePo think Mitch Trubisky is the best QB and we should trade up for him. 2.) John Dorsey/Traditional Scouting Department think Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes should be the pick at 12 or we should trade up for them. 3.) The Head Coach likes Trubisky and Watson. Who should have final say? Same as any other reasonable situation, a consensus. 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: Here's another: 1.) Analytics department and DePo think Courtland Sutton should be the pick in the 2nd round.. 2.) John Dorsey/Traditional Scouting Department think it should be Austin Corbett. 3.) The Head Coach likes both. Who should have final say? Same. 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: The point is over many hundreds of football decisions, who deserve to have the final power for judgment.... The smartest people should make decisions. 1 hour ago, Mind Character said: --------- No matter what, I just don't think it makes much sense to give DePo final say over roster/personnel. Now, maybe he has final say over coaching searches, assistant coaches, and/or organizational hires. Maybe he also is given a bigger voice when it comes to draft time and free agency. We saw what it was like to have a President of Football Operations - Sashi Brown; a GM without final say - Andrew Berry; an Strategic Executive -- Paul DePodesta and a "football guy" HC - Hue Jackson. The real remaining question is what would've been different if the key decision-makers were in the win now mode instead of the tear down, rebuild mode? We'll never know. One things for sure: in order to have DePo have final say, Dorsey would be let go and the new GM would have to be okay giving authority to what a lot of people perceive to be a "non-football" guy. I do laugh at the image/idea of Paul DePodesta and Robot Eliot Wolf on the phone trying to recruit free agents and talk to agents. Why? Do free agents not like money or the opportunity to win? Start making good decisions and people will want to play here. Keep being a turd show and we can keep overpaying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browns1987 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Riley or Rhule. Done with washed up NFL coaches like McCarthy or Rivera. Its not like they are super winners anyways. DePodesta > Dorsey. What has Dorsey done to be safe? He inherited a HUGE capital with top draft picks and tons of cap space, the team got worse this year while using most of the picks and a lot of the cap space. Not to mention the awful coach he hired. Not saying Dorsey should be fired, but lets not act like he has done wonders for this team. What good player did he pick after pick #35? Lets not mention Corbett, a huge bust at the top of the 2nd round. As an example, this is his 2018 draft: First round: Mayfield (1), Ward (4). Second round: Corbett (33), Nick Chubb (35). Third round: Chad Thomas (67). Fourth round: Antonio Callaway (105). Fifth round: Avery (150). Sixth round: Damion Ratley (175), Simeon Thomas (188). Hit on 3 of the top 4 pick, then its an absolute disaster. On 2019, so far Greedy hasnt played very well, but will give this class another year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Apparently depo doesn’t get involved in player stuff just on who to hire, optimizing decisions, processes etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornbybrown Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, mistakey said: Apparently depo doesn’t get involved in player stuff just on who to hire, optimizing decisions, processes etc. Problem is they actually need to start listening to him. We wouldn’t be about to fire another coach and from what I remember but could be wrong Hue wasn’t who he wanted either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, hornbybrown said: Problem is they actually need to start listening to him. We wouldn’t be about to fire another coach and from what I remember but could be wrong Hue wasn’t who he wanted either Na he wanted McDermott 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 1 minute ago, mistakey said: Na he wanted McDermott And stafanski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: Same as any other reasonable situation, a consensus. Same. The smartest people should make decisions. Why? Do free agents not like money or the opportunity to win? Start making good decisions and people will want to play here. Keep being a turd show and we can keep overpaying. The "Smartest" people is a loaded phrase. To me, the most expert person should make the decisions based around consensus building. DePodesta is likely the smartest person in the organization, but that doesn't mean that he has the expertise to identify which players should be valued over others. In the Sashi Brown world, that meant that consensus was built between Coaches, Scouts, and Analytics and a subsequent decision was made if it aligned with the teams overall goal of tanking to win later. At some point though, if the consensus builder does not have expertise of vision, evaluation, and decision-making relative to football and scouting of football players the wrong final decisions are made. You, Tayne, and me are the principle execs. You believe Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes is clearly the guy. You know it like you know the Sun will rise. Tayne thinks it's Trubisky, I believe in Trubisky by a slight edge, the scouts are split, and analytics points to Trubisky. Consensus isn't certain but it points to Trubisky. To me, that would be an example of consensus building, but it disregards whether or not consensus was being built from people on equal footing in expertise in QB evaluation. The point is that "Consensus" isn't always what successfully wins the day in real, on the ground GM decision-making. What's true is that no matter what, wrong decisions will be made. That's part of human organizational decision-making. However, if the consensus builder doesn't have the right expertise, imo it will lead to more wrong decisions being decided on than not, especially when decisions are made about closely comparable things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruceb Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Consensus almost by definition is a dilution of the decision and not optimal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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