Who do you want as head coach?

[mistakey]

Like I feel like haslam thinks he’s on his own version of the bachelor this is annoying 

[Mind Character]

 

28 minutes ago, Forge said:

I'm stubborn, I can't help it. @MWil23 can verify. 

I respect evidenced-based opinions.

You put forth evidence and put forth your analysis. 

I can respect that, but it's just missing the central point.

-------------------

  Quote

The NFL groups coaches into two categories: Head coaches and assistant coaches. Teams can't prevent an assistant from interviewing for head coaching vacancies. But all assistant coaching jobs are on equal footing, so going from, say, assistant offensive line coach to offensive coordinator is considered a lateral move by the NFL.

The statement you quoted above is absolutely and completely true. All Facts.

A change in title of an assistant is not considered a promotion but instead a lateral move.

Indeed, the above quote you included was pulled from an article specifying why Stefanski was blocked from becoming the Offensive Coordinator for the Giants ( https://www.nj.com/giants/2018/02/2_changes_the_nfl_needs_to_make_to_coaching_hire_r.html ) 

Which returns us to my previous central point: Zimmer/Vikings blocked Stefanski from becoming OC for the Giants AND Shanahan/49ers blocked LaFleur from becoming OC for the Packers BECAUSE they WOULD NOT have PRIMARY Play-calling Control/Responsibilities in their new job.

Both Shurmur/Shanahan would've retained primary play-calling responsibilities. Therefore, the moves would in essence have been lateral assistant coaching moves.

In the NFL, no head coach/team blocks a current assistant coach from taking a different job IF:

1.) They Currently Do Not Possess Primary Play-calling/Coordination Control/Responsibilities.

--AND--

2.) the new new job gives them Primary Play-Calling/Coordination Control/Responsibilities

So again, as I stated before, ASSUMING Mike LaFleur would e given Primary Play-calling Control for the Browns, the 49ers/Shanahan would not block the move.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Mind Character

[NateDawg]

You should also know that when @Mind Character wants to prove himself right in a debate, he will cite himself as a source, by posting a past self-quote. Usually a post with bold letters, sub-headings, and a really long poll.

[candyman93]

5 minutes ago, mistakey said:

Like I feel like haslam thinks he’s on his own version of the bachelor this is annoying 

At least you’ll get to talk about wings when he hire Daboll.

[49erurtaza]

All teams can block any assistant as long as its not for a head coaching job 

[Forge]

6 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

 

I respect evidenced-based opinions.

You put forth evidence and put forth your analysis. 

I can respect that, but it's just missing the central point.

-------------------

  Quote

The NFL groups coaches into two categories: Head coaches and assistant coaches. Teams can't prevent an assistant from interviewing for head coaching vacancies. But all assistant coaching jobs are on equal footing, so going from, say, assistant offensive line coach to offensive coordinator is considered a lateral move by the NFL.

The statement you quoted above is absolutely and completely true. All Facts.

A change in title of an assistant is not considered a promotion but instead a lateral move.

Indeed, the above quote you included was pulled from an article specifying why Stefanski was blocked from becoming the Offensive Coordinator for the Giants ( https://www.nj.com/giants/2018/02/2_changes_the_nfl_needs_to_make_to_coaching_hire_r.html ) 

Which returns us to my previous central point: Zimmer/Vikings blocked Stefanski from becoming OC for the Giants AND Shanahan/49ers blocked LaFleur from becoming OC for the Packers BECAUSE they WOULD NOT have PRIMARY Play-calling Control/Responsibilities in their new job.

Both Shurmur/Shanahan would've retained primary play-calling responsibilities. Therefore, the moves would in essence have been lateral assistant coaching moves.

In the NFL, no head coach/team blocks a current assistant coach from taking a different job IF:

1.) They Currently Do Not Possess Primary Play-calling/Coordination Control/Responsibilities.

--AND--

2.) the new new job gives them Primary Play-Calling/Coordination Control/Responsibilities

So again, as I stated before, ASSUMING Mike LaFleur would e given Primary Play-calling Control for the Browns, the 49ers/Shanahan would not block the move.

Playcalling has nothing to do with it. All assistant coaches are considered the same. OC / assistant line coach / QB coach. Now, Shanny may not block it if he personally views it as a promotion, but he has every right to. 

Quote

 

As it stands, if Team A is conducting a search for a new coordinator and Team B has a young quarterback coach or offensive line coach, for instance, who Team A wants to hire as a primary play caller and leader of its offense or defense or special teams, Team B can block that process from ever taking place. Nip it in the bud. Never even let them speak.

Team B can decline the interview request out of hand, refuse the opportunity to even communicate with the other team, and move on as business as usual. It doesn't matter if that assistant coach has never had much leverage before, and might be on a one-or-two year deal with only one year remaining. It doesn't matter if Team B, in this case, already has an established coordinator in place and no short-terms plans to promote that position coach. It doesn't matter if he is among the lowest-paid coaches in the league at his current position, or one of the highest. They can bury the request and squat on the coach's rights for the length of his contract.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-a-fix-to-the-nfls-tired-policy-of-blocking-coaches-from-interviews/

 

 

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

It's why you won't see any 49ers fans deeply saddened by his loss if he were to get the job. This turnaround doesn't have much to do with him as it does the influx of talent, though to be fair to him as well, I didn't blame him for how bad the defense was in years prior because of the complete lack of talent. 

He does strike me as a guy that could be an improvement as a head coach over a DC, he really does have that mentality, but he needs to surround himself with quality offensive guys for sure, because that's still the way to win. 

I completely agree.

He definitely has the magneticism that could make him a better program leader than DC.

It would then be best for him not to call the defense so that issues on defense wouldn't take away from belief in his program.

The best DCs get deficient talent to play together at a higher level and have the whole play better than the sum of their parts. 49ers had deficiencies in years prior and Saleh was unable to overcome them. 

We'll see what he becomes if he is named Head Coach.

HE does have the mentality, but only time will tell if he has the depth of leadership to build a winning culture.

[49erurtaza]

2 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I completely agree.

He definitely has the magneticism that could make him a better program leader than DC.

It would then be best for him not to call the defense so that issues on defense wouldn't take away from belief in his program.

The best DCs get deficient talent to play together at a higher level and have the whole play better than the sum of their parts. 49ers had deficiencies in years prior and Saleh was unable to overcome them. 

We'll see what he becomes if he is named Head Coach.

HE does have the mentality, but only time will tell if he has the depth of leadership to build a winning culture.

Yeah I agree you dont want him to call plays more then likely. Hes going to be a culture builder if hired. 

[mistakey]

15 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

At least you’ll get to talk about wings when he hire Daboll.

Fuuuu

[Mind Character]

25 minutes ago, Forge said:

Playcalling has nothing to do with it. All assistant coaches are considered the same. OC / assistant line coach / QB coach. Now, Shanny may not block it if he personally views it as a promotion, but he has every right to. 

Quote

We'll just have to agree to strongly disagree on this point as we don't see the central points the same.

It's all good though.

There are laws/rules/procedures and then there are laws/rules/procedures. 

In the last 25 years, when was the last time an NFL Assistant Coach WITHOUT Primary Play-Calling Control/Responsibilities was blocked by a Team/Head Coach from taking a different job WITH Primary Play-Calling Control/Responsibilities?

It doesn't happen.

Loitering and Jay-walking are codified breaches of the law in various places, but are rarely enforced. It's even more of a rare occurrence, to see a team/head coach block an assistant leaving for another assistant job that comes With primary play-calling control/responsibilities.

So, in my opinion, the idea that Kyle Shanahan would block Mike LaFleur or Mike McDaniel from taking a new job in that way isn't even a remote possibility worth considering even if it happened to be the case that the power to do so was codified in the by-laws of NFL procedures.

That's why if Stefanski would've received primary play-calling control in New York then Zimmer would not have blocked it. And I don't think it's a stretch in the imagination to believe that based on how the coaching fraternity works.

But to your point (and I haven't actually read the codified NFL by-laws and procedures), the team/head coach may be able to do so as strictly stated in the NFL by-laws and rules.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Mind Character

[Justone2]

1 minute ago, Mind Character said:

We'll just have to agree to strongly disagree on this point as we don't see the central points the same.

It's all good though.

There are laws/rules/procedures and then there are laws/rules/procedures. 

In the last 25 years, when was the last time an NFL Assistant Coach WITHOUT Primary Play-Calling Control/Responsibilities was blocked by a Team/Head Coach from taking a different job WITH Primary Play-Calling Control/Responsibilities?

It doesn't happen. Ever.

Loitering and Jay-walking are codified breaches of the law in various places, but are rarely enforced. It's even more of a rare occurrence (it never happens), to see a team/head coach block an assistant leaving for another assistant job that comes With primary play-calling control/responsibilities.

So, in my opinion, the idea that Kyle Shanahan would block Mike LaFleur or Mike McDaniel from taking a new job in that way isn't even a remote possibility worth considering even if it happened to be the case that it was codified in the by-laws of NFL procedures.

That's why if Stefanski would've received primary play-calling control in New York then Zimmer would not have blocked it. And I don't think it's a stretch in the imagination to believe that based on how the coaching fraternity works.

But to your point (and I haven't actually read the codified NFL by-laws and procedures), the team/head coach may be able to do so as strictly stated in the NFL by-laws and rules.

Vance Joseph got blocked for multiple DC opportunities when he was the defensive backs coach of the Bengals. https://www.espn.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/83495/report-bengals-block-vance-joseph-from-broncos

[Forge]

Okay, we are close to derailing the browns thread in their own forum lol. So let's not do that, as I think the point has been made both ways. 

Getting to Saleh, the problem I have with him as a hire is that while he may be a better head coach than coordinator, if he brings lafleur, and the latter turns around the offense, how long do you keep him before he's a head coach? A year? Maybe two? I feel like even if Saleh is a solid head coach, because he's defensive minded, you may have future instability. New offensive schemes, etc. Not great with a young QB. If you hire an offensive guy, your stability will likely be better. The offensive philosophy will stay the same and you're far less likely to lose defensive guys to head coaching opportunities

[mistakey]

2 minutes ago, Forge said:

Okay, we are close to derailing the browns thread in their own forum lol. So let's not do that, as I think the point has been made both ways. 

Getting to Saleh, the problem I have with him as a hire is that while he may be a better head coach than coordinator, if he brings lafleur, and the latter turns around the offense, how long do you keep him before he's a head coach? A year? Maybe two? I feel like even if Saleh is a solid head coach, because he's defensive minded, you may have future instability. New offensive schemes, etc. Not great with a young QB. If you hire an offensive guy, your stability will likely be better. The offensive philosophy will stay the same and you're far less likely to lose defensive guys to head coaching opportunities

Forge do not worry we derail everything 

[Mind Character]

21 minutes ago, Justone2 said:

Vance Joseph got blocked for multiple DC opportunities when he was the defensive backs coach of the Bengals. https://www.espn.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/83495/report-bengals-block-vance-joseph-from-broncos

Good point.

This happened as well when the Saints blocked Aaron Glenn from interviewing for the Bengals DC job.

To my knowledge, it's happened a handful of times in 20 years. Another time was when the Colts declined to allow Rob Chudzinski who served in an advisor role to interview for the offensive coordinator position for the Rams.

In the last few decades, it is not the case that "it doesn't happen. Ever" literally but it happens as a rare case. 

In the times it has happened, usually there's a forthcoming dissolution between the parties and/or something to compensate/promote them handsomely.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Mind Character

[Mind Character]

Just now, mistakey said:

Forge do not worry we derail everything 

Now, back to chicken wings conversations.