Week 3 GDT: Bill Polian Still Hates the Osweiler Trade & Never Tanked

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I want so badly to get what your getting at...maybe I'm too old...or too young...Gatorade? Sleeping on side?

The only thin connection I see (and it could be projection or b/c I'm fully alched) is a dropping the soap context with the sleep thing...but how does Gatorade fit in?

Part of me hopes you're just pulling randon sh** outto the air to mess with an alchy or what man?

If that's a real thing...I'm too old or too young...to sauced..or just lame (probably the last one)

What codex or cipher must I get to crack this codde?

It means you seem so shtfaced you need to stop drinking booze and switch to Gatorade (you'll thank me tomorrow).

Sleeping on your side prevents someone from chocking on their vomit while they sleep (you'll be able to thank me tomorrow).

No code, pretty basic actually lol.

[Mind Character]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It means you seem so shtfaced you need to stop drinking booze and switch to Gatorade (you'll thank me tomorrow).

Sleeping on your side prevents someone from chocking on their vomit while they sleep (you'll be able to thank me tomorrow).

No code, pretty basic actually lol.

haha...yep, that seals it I;m donzo...

out..catch all you's on when things start make sense again...

Fire Hue; it's his fault; Hire cowher or gruden...makes sense

[FGK]

My thoughts:

Screw you, Britt. I don't care about the TD. The guy dropped a few, was giving zero effort on others, screw him. Bench his butt and give Kasen and Leslie more time. Louis had a few drops too, but at least seemed to be putting in full effort.

Kizer was fine. He wasn't amazing, but he played well overall. Drops and penalties hurt a lot, and he used his short options much better as the game went along.

That defensive gameplan was dookie in the first half. We're going against a backup QB who has trouble with reading D's... and we rush seven every time against max protect with safeties 30 yards back so that he's basically just reading two WR's vs. two CBs in a full open field? That was dumb. There was a reason their offense slowed down so much after they switched to four man rushes.

Screw you Hochuli and company. OPIs for middle of the field pick plays? The TE's didn't do a great job disguising it, but EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE does that at least 5-6 times per game and I see it called at MOST once per week across the whole league. Screw y'all.

Duke Johnson had a beast mode game.

It just sucks that the game was thrown by the first twenty minutes of defensive gameplan. We couldn't get pressure with seven because they were keeping in eight to block, the answer to that isn't to keep sending seven. Dumb.

[OttoGrahamsGhost]

Tough game. Honestly thought Kizer played well. He did a lot better for moving outside of the pocket and upfield. Unfortunate there were so many drops but I have a feeling we will need to get used to it this year. We need a possession receiver. The dump offs were great. 

The defense did well for 3/4ths of the game. Those few drives in the 2nd quarter were horrible. They need to fix the secondary. Not sure if using a center fielder is the best idea. Schobert is a beast. Can't wait to see how this defense looks with Myles the man child running around. 

There is a lot to build on. But more to be diappointed with. There's always next week. 

[Kiwibrown]

We aren't football geniuses and we all worked out what was going wrong. 

Kenny the F Britt. 

[jrry32]

57 minutes ago, freakygeniuskid said:

Screw you, Britt. I don't care about the TD. The guy dropped a few, was giving zero effort on others, screw him. Bench his butt and give Kasen and Leslie more time. Louis had a few drops too, but at least seemed to be putting in full effort.

This is why I didn't want him back. He was lazy with Fisher. I figured it would only get worse with another coach.

[brownie man]

Yeah I had no idea Kenny Britt was THIS bad! 

It's pretty annoying he's slowing Kizer down

I'd rather them but a younger guy out there even if that guy drops the same number of passes it'll feel better because he isn't getting paid what Kenny is getting

Get that dude outta here you've taken responsibility for other bad signings and draft picks don't stop now Sashi

Also I really need to see more out of Ogbah what is he doing? He's like non existent I've seen Orchard make more plays. I wish would of our dumb *** beat reporters would ask about him

[jrry32]

5 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Yeah I had no idea Kenny Britt was THIS bad! 

It's pretty annoying he's slowing Kizer down

I'd rather them but a younger guy out there even if that guy drops the same number of passes it'll feel better because he isn't getting paid what Kenny is getting

Get that dude outta here you've taken responsibility for other bad signings and draft picks don't stop now Sashi

Also I really need to see more out of Ogbah what is he doing? He's like non existent I've seen Orchard make more plays. I wish would of our dumb *** beat reporters would ask about him

He's a really talented athlete who can be dangerous on vertical routes, but his shorter routes are sloppy, and he gives terrible effort when he doesn't think the play is designed to go him. He'll coast on routes when he's a secondary target and quit on plays. Even with Fisher, he did that. Without Fisher, he gave no effort in Tennessee.

[Thomas5737]

4 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It hit both of his hands. If that's not catchable, what is?

It wasn't an accurate throw, but a pro receiver is responsible for catching every pass that hits both hands IMO.

I'm not here to defend Britt, I see the same play as the rest of you. That isn't a realistic catch scenario though. The greatest can make it but that isn't who Britt is and even then the greatest miss that more often than they catch it. It isn't like the short sideline pass where you put your body in a position to make the catch there was very little to no time to adjust to that throw on a slant your body is moving one direction and the ball is going behind you all you can do is lunge with your arms and hope for the best.

We'd probably be better off if Britt was inactive the rest of the way but that specific play wasn't on him at all. You catch with your eyes, your eyes relay to your body to put yourself in position to make the catch and your eyes catch the football and your hands just go through the motion that your eyes tell them. When the ball is behind your and you are unable to put your body in a position that your eyes can make the catch then more times than not your aren't going to make the catch. On a slant the ball can't be behind the receiver like that, it probably has a 2% completion rate. If it was a post route further down the field or a different type of route where a receiver can adjust I'm with ya. On that specific play I can't agree. The ball may have hit both hands but both eyes were unable to bring that pass in.

[Fatgerman]

Id love to get that number one pick. Id trade that sob for a kings ransome of picks to a team desperate for Darnold or Rosen. Could you imagine the picks we could accumilate? Can you guys imagine 3 first round picks and 4 or 5 second round picks? Now thats how you rebuild quick, fast, and in a hurry. BTW, I think this obviously reveals how strongly I feel about Kizer. I think hes the guy. 

But 7 guys in the first two rounds. 2 dbs, 2 wr, 1 rb, and 2 bpa. Thats cooking with fire. God, Im an optimist.

[Fatgerman]

Oh, yeah. And screw you Britt, making me miss Greg little!

[Fatgerman]

Oh, yeah. And screw you Britt, making me miss Greg little!

[Mind Character]

42 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

I'm not here to defend Britt, I see the same play as the rest of you. That isn't a realistic catch scenario though. The greatest can make it but that isn't who Britt is and even then the greatest miss that more often than they catch it. It isn't like the short sideline pass where you put your body in a position to make the catch there was very little to no time to adjust to that throw on a slant your body is moving one direction and the ball is going behind you all you can do is lunge with your arms and hope for the best.

We'd probably be better off if Britt was inactive the rest of the way but that specific play wasn't on him at all. You catch with your eyes, your eyes relay to your body to put yourself in position to make the catch and your eyes catch the football and your hands just go through the motion that your eyes tell them. When the ball is behind your and you are unable to put your body in a position that your eyes can make the catch then more times than not your aren't going to make the catch. On a slant the ball can't be behind the receiver like that, it probably has a 2% completion rate. If it was a post route further down the field or a different type of route where a receiver can adjust I'm with ya. On that specific play I can't agree. The ball may have hit both hands but both eyes were unable to bring that pass in.

@Thomas5737  I think your point 9 times out of 10 would be lucid and completely correct off first watch (just like the announcer said "Britt's open Kizer just missed him";) however in this case after further review it's very clear that Britt overran the route, ignored a WRs route responsibility against cover 3 under zone; that is, to settle between the zone, don't overrun into the defensive pass leverage, & be prepared for a throw on the back shoulder to lead you back up the field (those are always the rules against such coverage)

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I agreed with you at the time but was unsure so I took another look at the play to see what was going on...

The Britt play in question can be seen at 5:40 (for a better eye in the sky view 5:54) in the following video link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz1l4jMCVy0

But i chopped up the passing picture b/c it takes like 4 minutes total to do so when gifs take like 30 mins or so.

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1. Here's the pre-snap picture (CB in press on Britt shaded to the outside b/c he knows he'll have inside leverage). In this cover-3 under with press man CB responsibilities, the OLB (Could also functionally be a safety position player but functionally is lined up like an OLB) is shaded on the outside hip of the Wide-9 aligned defensive end to Britt's side of the field because he's going to drop in an under zone. Note that the "MLB" (could actually be a safety position player but functionally looks like a MLB) is lined up all the way between the hashes/Colts helmet emblem looking at the RG. He's going to drop into a zone. These 3-players are going to bracket Britt. Let's see how the play unfolds

 

2. Britt Beats the press well gaining inside leverage but the DB is all that worried about giving up the inside b/c he has help there.

 

3. Britt now with inside leverage begins to get up field before breaking inside on a post route. See the OLB dropping into zone to leverage defend Britt's route from the inside; See MLB running to bracket zone to take away and defend the post squeezing the completion area on a post route if one should be run.

 

4. Kizer starts his windup. Here we see Kizer has already identified where to put the ball and where not to. The number threats are do not leave the ball short so the OLB playing the under zone can get it and most importantly do not leave the ball inside for the MLB who is spying Kizer's eyes and breaking hard at this point to disrupt the post. The goal against this cover 3 look for the WR especially for a vet with knowledge is to break the post route off inside the zone defender bracket and to not overrun it b/c the MLB breaking on the ball will either intercept it, have a good chance to deflect the ball, end the WRs career, or all 3. Kizer sees it right at this point. Let's see where the ball goes.

 

5. Ball released. Now we can see Kizer's throwing goal more clearly...you throw beyond the back of the under zone LB but not too far (where the hashes are) b/c the MLB is breaking on the ball.

 

5. The ball is out and it's game over for the defense. The under zone LB/S back is turned and he's a non threat. The outside DB is beat and pointing inside to the MLB to see the post therefore the DB is a non threat. The only threat left is the Spying zone MLB/S. To beat this guy is the WRs responsibility. Britt as a veteran has to know that the ball is already out when he breaks inside on the post and that he needs to slow down and settle into the zone or just sit down on the route. Where Britt is now is basically where the ball ends up.

 

6. This is actually where the ball eventually goes. Now, in real time, Britt is blazing out of his routes and gives no thought to putting on the brakes.

 

7, Here is the point when Britt realizes the ball has long since been in flight and he needs to put on the brakes, but it's just too late. You can see he's to a few yards to far off target and has to start to turn his body to make an attempt on the catch.

 

8. Momentum carries him even further toward the hashes. This is a great shot b/c you can see how if Britt actually continued to where his body momentum was taking him instead of slamming on the brakes and reaching back that MLB is now on the opposite side of the outer hash and would've had a great opportunity to disrupt if not intercept the throw.

 

9. Poor route, poor recognition at the line of what as a WR he needed to accomplishes. Reaches behind himself for the ball. Still gets two hands on it, but ultimately cannot come up with the catch

 

Simply put...that INT is on Britt 100%. What's great about it is that Kizer put the blame on himself completely.

However, Hue mentioned in his press conference (Hue actually watches critical turnovers before he heads to his press conference and has done so since his Oakland days). Hue rightly mentions something along the lines of "I understand what Deshone was trying to do avoid the Safety (LB) and tried to slow Kenny down...it's unfortunate Kenny couldn't slow down...blah blah.."

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So, to really understand who's at fault on this play the questions are: 1.) What is the WRs responsibility on that play?, 2.) Did he execute his responsibility?, 3.) Relative to his responsibility was the QBs pass on target/catchable? & 4.) Could the QB have put the ball elsewhere?

The WRs responsibility was to settle and/or settle in the zone, Britt did no execute his responsibility, relative to Britt's route responsibility Kizer ball placement was on target and catchable, and Kizer couldn't have really put the ball elsewhere (there may have been just a little bit of room inside but as a QB you want to err on the side of caution and if he did it could have been a catastrophic tip drill INT all the same.

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Kizer also took responsibility for the Kasen Williams throw.

Now, I don't know if Williams was supposed to run inside or out.

What I do know is that Kizer threw the ball with anticipation before Williams broke out of his route.

Hue seemed to indicate that Kizer was wrong. It would be interesting and really better for the evaluation of Kizer if he had a mental lapse and thought Kasen would be breaking outside. In that case, the ball would've been an accurate one if Kasen broke the route. This would be an upgrade on just the really bad accuracy Kizer displayed on the Higgins Touchdown INT, and would mean that Kizer really didn't throw inaccurate interceptions this game (the Britt INT is on Britt; the Williams INT was do to poor mental recognition and not arm inaccuracy; and the last one was just an end of the game shot).

For now, I'm going to chart the Kasen Williams INT just like the Higgins one; that is, just an inaccurate ball. I'm doing so b/c the leverage Williams had really dictated that the ball be thrown inside.

So, for the game Kizer really only threw 1 INT on him but an argument can be made if one likes for the Hooker INT being on him as well.

Deshone needs to elevate his game. He showed a lot of positive signs in this game, but still has a ton to improve on.

It obviously would help a ton if the WRs caught the ball and/or ran the correct route assignments.

 

 

[Thomas5737]

If Kizer wanted to avoid the MLB all he had to do was get the ball out quicker (same placement) and it would have hit Britt in the chest (he may have still dropped it). As far as Britt looking for the ball while his back was still to the QB that wouldn't be good for his route and would telegraph what pass was about to come. If someone would have said it was a skinny post and Britt exaggerated the route I could live with that but I'm not buying that Britt should slow down his route in anticipation that the LB drifted far enough back to make a play (I don't think he did) when he knows he is in man coverage and has to assume the CB is on his heels (he wasn't really but you can't be looking at the QB, the CB and the field (route running) all at the same time).

[Mind Character]

32 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

If Kizer wanted to avoid the MLB all he had to do was get the ball out quicker (same placement) and it would have hit Britt in the chest (he may have still dropped it). As far as Britt looking for the ball while his back was still to the QB that wouldn't be good for his route and would telegraph what pass was about to come. If someone would have said it was a skinny post and Britt exaggerated the route I could live with that but I'm not buying that Britt should slow down his route in anticipation that the LB drifted far enough back to make a play (I don't think he did) when he knows he is in man coverage and has to assume the CB is on his heels (he wasn't really but you can't be looking at the QB, the CB and the field (route running) all at the same time).

Not saying's Hue's necessarily right b/c he admits he needs to review it again, but Hue's the one that mentioned Britt needing to slow down.

In terms of getting the ball out quicker...idk man..it looks like Kizer threw the ball well before Britt made grounds on the in-cut and he threw it with anticipation to a spot in the zone imo

If you disagree,....We'll just have to agree to disagree then.

I don't think slow down necessarily means slow down based on watching the MLB while running the route or anything like that (that's a lot but the great WRs do that; Britt didn't have to make this play successful however imo), but WRs need to have a pre-snap route plan...so that if they identify the cover 3 zone scheme they know that they need to break the route off or at least pace their inward break and sit down. These are things that should be going through the mind before they even come out there break.

Maybe my statements implied something I didn't mean, but I'm not sure what you mean about "Britt looking for the ball while his back was still to the QB." If I implied that, I didn't mean to.

I just meant that if a WR knows the defense is in cover 3 with man-press on the outside. The responsibility is to first look at the DB line across from you. If he's giving you inside leverage that's a tell that he has help. Even without the tell the WRs suppose to look inside presnap to where his route is supposed to go and anticipate that if there in zone that he needs to come out of his break under control and maybe sit in the zone.