Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[acowboys62]

Just now, vikesfan89 said:

That makes zero sense at this point

Nothing really makes sense anymore, except this all sucks for all of us. 

[theJ]

Just now, vikesfan89 said:

1 minute ago, acowboys62 said:

My wife just heard in our part of NJ and one of the systems she works, they will not open up for elective surgeries until they 100% clear out at least 1 of the ICUs in the system.  Keep in mind, they rarely if ever have 0 people in an ICU.  

That makes zero sense at this point

*in the system

Meaning they're moving people around to different hospitals, likely keeping several hospitals for COVID patients, and others for non-COVID patients.  At least, that's what they're doing in my area.

Also, we're in a similar boat here.  Cases are in a huge decline in my city, and the COVID wards are mostly empty.

[vikesfan89]

Just now, theJ said:

*in the system

Meaning they're moving people around to different hospitals, likely keeping several hospitals for COVID patients, and others for non-COVID patients.  At least, that's what they're doing in my area.

Also, we're in a similar boat here.  Cases are in a huge decline in my city, and the COVID wards are mostly empty.

A couple weeks ago someone got in my case because I asked if patients could get moved to a different hospital

If the plan is to have certain hospitals not deal with Covid-19 patients then it could work I suppose

[Shanedorf]

2 hours ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Do we have any efficacy data? 

Usually people throw in an early assessment in Phase 1 even though the primary endpoint is safety.

They'd have serial blood samples to test for neutralizing antibodies in the phase I group, that would give them some efficacy insight.
For Moderna, they are dosing with mRNA which causes our own cells to produce the viral proteins, which in turn elicit an antibody response to those viral proteins.  This is an area where @seriously27 can shed some light on how they measure efficacy in a non- challenge vaccine trial.

Key challenges:
Using mRNA to create medicines is a complex undertaking and requires overcoming novel scientific and technical challenges. We need to get the mRNA into the targeted tissue and cells while evading the immune system. If the immune system is triggered, the resultant response may limit protein production and, thus, limit the therapeutic benefit of mRNA medicines. We also need ribosomes to think the mRNA was produced naturally, so they can accurately read the instructions to produce the right protein. And we need to ensure the cells express enough of the protein to have the desired therapeutic effect. 

[mission27]

1 hour ago, Outpost31 said:

I'm sick of hearing about "infecting grandma" like grandma is some Goddamn (sorry God) gerbil.  Grandma is her own person. 

*If grandma is in a nursing home, it's the nursing home's responsibility to keep people potentially contagious out of the facility.
*If grandma lives with grandchildren, it's up to the household to keep their children away from grandma and away from places that could lead to getting COVID-19.

My biggest pet peeves in life are a lack of accountability and too much entitlement. 

A global pandemic does not lessen the need for personal accountability, it amplifies it. 
A global pandemic does not boost entitlement, it lessens it. 

You are not entitled to the entire world suffering to keep you safe. 
You are accountable for your own health. 

This does not make me heartless or uncaring for grandma.  Every single "grandma" that I know is taking their own accountability.  They are staying home, they are staying isolated, they are practicing social distancing.  Quit using them as an excuse to let millions of people go jobless, hungry and abused. 

By trying to save 5 years of life for X amount of people you are taking 10 years of life by X amount of people through poverty and well being.

This constant talk of saving grandma is ridiculous.  Unless grandma has no ears eyes nose arms or legs let grandma take care of herself. 

Yes

[theJ]

Just now, vikesfan89 said:

A couple weeks ago someone got in my case because I asked if patients could get moved to a different hospital

If the plan is to have certain hospitals not deal with Covid-19 patients then it could work I suppose

Weird.  I don't know why that would be a hot-button topic.  They certainly did it in my city.  Doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 minute ago, Shanedorf said:

They'd have serial blood samples to test for neutralizing antibodies in the phase I group, that would give them some efficacy insight.
For Moderna, they are dosing with mRNA which causes our own cells to produce the viral proteins, which in turn elicit an antibody response to those viral proteins.  This is an area where @seriously27 can shed some light on how they measure efficacy in a non- challenge vaccine trial.

Key challenges:
Using mRNA to create medicines is a complex undertaking and requires overcoming novel scientific and technical challenges. We need to get the mRNA into the targeted tissue and cells while evading the immune system. If the immune system is triggered, the resultant response may limit protein production and, thus, limit the therapeutic benefit of mRNA medicines. We also need ribosomes to think the mRNA was produced naturally, so they can accurately read the instructions to produce the right protein. And we need to ensure the cells express enough of the protein to have the desired therapeutic effect. 

Understood. And since all you would need is a predose collection and then a 3 week sample or something like that, it'd be a cheap enough endpoint that I'm hoping they'd tack it on.

Edited May 7, 2020 by ramssuperbowl99

[MWil23]

21 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I, for one, am looking forward to this magic universe some people exist in where laws and restrictions aren't needed, and people will simply cooperate when provided the information needed to justify the cooperation.

Meanwhile, on planet Earth, we're stuck here babysitting and regulating and restricting, not because we want to, but because we have to. But that magic universe sure sounds nice.

It's really been too long since you've frequented the Browns subforum. We are the poster children of anarchy meets cooperation.

[ramssuperbowl99]

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

It's really been too long since you've frequented the Browns subforum. We are the poster children of anarchy meets cooperation.

You guys tag me and @ET80 in there weekly.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

You guys tag me and @ET80 in there weekly.

We must have drafted too well, because you and @ET80 never came back. Don't worry, Wills and Delpit will probably both be involved in a car crash driving to practice before they ever officially suit up, derailing their entire careers.

[TVScout]

4 hours ago, theJ said:

Not free.

I may have had it already.  I had an awful cough/congestion thing around late Feb/Early March.  Lasted about two weeks.  I kept joking with people that i didn't have the corona, but maybe i did?  Who really knows.

The gist of that article is Thinkihadititis:

 

Thinkihadititis usually involves stretching the imagination to some degree. After all, covid-19 shares some symptoms with the seasonal flu and common allergies. Currently fewer than 20 percent of covid-19 tests are coming back positive, according to data reported to the Centers of Disease Control and Prevention, suggesting that the great majority of people who thought they had it — even in the middle of the pandemic — didn’t actually have it.

To the extent that having already beat covid-19 is preferable to wondering if you’re one of the people it’s going to put in the hospital, thinkihadititis may be a form of positive thinking. Humans are hardwired to anticipate positive outcomes, says Tali Sharot, a professor of cognitive neuroscience at the University College London who studies optimism and expectations.  

When there is something we want to believe, we are very good at interpreting the evidence in a way that would support that belief,” Sharot says.

The reverse is also true. “Say there was a doctor saying that if you had it before, then the likelihood that you would get it again is higher, and it would be even more dangerous,” says the professor. If that were the case, people “would probably look back to their illnesses and interpret certain symptoms as definitely not covid-19.”

 

[ET80]

17 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

You guys tag me and @ET80 in there weekly.

I've been summoned.

12 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

We must have drafted too well, because you and @ET80 never came back. 

I've been summoned again.

[TVScout]

For the MoL:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

[candyman93]

Don’t want to start an argument and derail the thread, but the valet driver of somebody pretty well known tested positive for it.

[MacReady]

21 minutes ago, diehardlionfan said:

Poverty and well being? Sorry but the poverty makes me chuckle. No one gave two hoots about poverty before this happened because it didn’t impact them. Now, whoa, it impacts more people so it’s a concern. The hard reality is poverty is part of the issue prior to this virus with lack of healthcare, nutritious food etc. The only reason we have poverty in the developed world is greed, entitlement etc.

Before this the entire globe wasn't at risk of massive poverty.  Now it is.  The longer this goes on, the more people fall into this category.

We are at what, 70,000 people in this country dying from the disease? 

There's that line in the movie The Big Short:

Quote

Ben Rickert: If we're right, people lose homes. People lose jobs. People lose retirement savings, people lose pensions. You know what I hate about ******* banking? It reduces people to numbers. Here's a number - every 1% unemployment goes up, 40,000 people die, did you know that?

The deaths associated with unemployment, poverty, lack of education... It is staggering.  We save 40,000 people from dying from Covid-19 and we lose 100,000 from the other causes.

These causes of death aren't as tangible as deaths from disease, but the economic shutdown IS TAKING YEARS OF LIFE. 

https://www.mailman.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/how-many-us-deaths-are-caused-poverty-lack-education-and-other-social-factors

Quote

The investigators found that approximately 245,000 deaths in the United States in the year 2000 were attributable to low levels of education, 176,000 to racial segregation, 162,000 to low social support, 133,000 to individual-level poverty, 119,000 to income inequality, and 39,000 to area-level poverty. 
Overall, 4.5% of U.S. deaths were found to be attributable to poverty—midway between previous estimates of 6% and 2.3%. However the risks associated with both poverty and low education were higher for individuals aged 25 to 64 than for those 65 or older.

You are saving 5 years for the elderly and taking 10 years from 25-64 year olds. 

Call me insensitive all you want, but this is me at my most sensitive and my most caring.