Broncofan Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I don't think manning played on a discount for us because he got the rest of the money of they won the Superbowl. So technically that isn't a discount. Actually it was a discount for 2015 - because the bonus got paid the next year, in the 2016 year - so it allowed us to use that 4M to get FA's like Darian Stewart and Vance Walker signed. The 4M was judged "not likely" so it wasn't counted in the 2015 $ pool (AFCG & SB). It was a genius discount - we don't get that far, we keep the $, and since we won the SB, we have no qualms about paying the extra $. We bag on Elway rightfully for his draft issues in Day 2 (and of late, Day 1), but man, that guy knows to get deals done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 39 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Actually it was a discount for 2015 - because the bonus got paid the next year, in the 2016 year - so it allowed us to use that 4M to get FA's like Darian Stewart and Vance Walker signed. The 4M was judged "not likely" so it wasn't counted in the 2015 $ pool (AFCG & SB). It was a genius discount - we don't get that far, we keep the $, and since we won the SB, we have no qualms about paying the extra $. We bag on Elway rightfully for his draft issues in Day 2 (and of late, Day 1), but man, that guy knows to get deals done. I think it's a testament to Manning as well. He was humbled at the end of 2014 after that rams game. And theres no doubt he was worth that 4 year contract. Thats why I don't want cousins I don't think hes the type of qb to elevate the team around him or win big games. He will bring stability to the position but do you pay 25+ a year for stability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: I think it's a testament to Manning as well. He was humbled at the end of 2014 after that rams game. And theres no doubt he was worth that 4 year contract. Thats why I don't want cousins I don't think hes the type of qb to elevate the team around him or win big games. He will bring stability to the position but do you pay 25+ a year for stability. It was the first and only time PFM took anything but top dollar. So yeah he does get credit for putting legacy ahead of $ because the 2nd SB certainly changes the narrative esp in light of him taking the discount to be all performance based on the team. Before that Manning was always portrayed as the guy who wouldn’t settle for anything but top $. Elway still gets a ton of credit for being the only GM to get that discount from him. Re: Cousins the issue is he will cost too much. 25M is actually low in this market and we can’t afford it. He’s likely getting more $ than Stafford so 30M is a more likely AAV #. And again WAS controls him still for next year so a trade is still likely needed. But make no mistake Cousins already elevates the play of those around him. One receiver in the top 50. No running attack and the OL is actually down to 4 backups. The 22nd ranked rush attack by DVOA. And the OL has been down to 4 backups for the last 3-4 games. And yet WAS pass O is top 10 (maybe 11-12 now). Watching the last 4 WAS games he’s literally on his own and doing it all. He’s just too expensive in terms of $ and draft capital. But wherever Cousins goes he will likely succeed. Put Cousins in CLE with them keeping 1.1 and all those other 2nds/3rds that’s probably a playoff team in 2019 at latest - I could see 2018 frankly if they find a RB upgrade and 2nd true WR. Crazy stat - QB Kizer in the first 8 games alone - 9 TO’s inside the opponent’s 5 yard line. 9 scores the QB has given away. They are already that close to being an O that keeps them in close games. CLE needs a better RB and true WR1 (Corey Coleman returning gives them a legit top 2 WR). That’s a team that’s actually got way more O talent than we do (OL way ahead, TE way ahead, RB similar and only 1 WR behind us) - where getting a QB makes all the difference. They can afford the cost. We can’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul-mac Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 1 hour ago, thebestever6 said: I don't think manning played on a discount for us because he got the rest of the money of they won the Superbowl. So technically that isn't a discount. It was a discount because the bonus would have counted against the following year’s cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted December 2, 2017 Share Posted December 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Broncofan said: It was the first and only time PFM took anything but top dollar. So yeah he does get credit for putting legacy ahead of $ because the 2nd SB certainly changes the narrative esp in light of him taking the discount to be all performance based on the team. Before that Manning was always portrayed as the guy who wouldn’t settle for anything but top $. Elway still gets a ton of credit for being the only GM to get that discount from him. Re: Cousins the issue is he will cost too much. 25M is actually low in this market and we can’t afford it. He’s likely getting more $ than Stafford so 30M is a more likely AAV #. And again WAS controls him still for next year so a trade is still likely needed. But make no mistake Cousins already elevates the play of those around him. One receiver in the top 50. No running attack and the OL is actually down to 4 backups. The 22nd ranked rush attack by DVOA. And the OL has been down to 4 backups for the last 3-4 games. And yet WAS pass O is top 10 (maybe 11-12 now). Watching the last 4 WAS games he’s literally on his own and doing it all. He’s just too expensive in terms of $ and draft capital. But wherever Cousins goes he will likely succeed. Put Cousins in CLE with them keeping 1.1 and all those other 2nds/3rds that’s probably a playoff team in 2019 at latest - I could see 2018 frankly if they find a RB upgrade and 2nd true WR. Crazy stat - QB Kizer in the first 8 games alone - 9 TO’s inside the opponent’s 5 yard line. 9 scores the QB has given away. They are already that close to being an O that keeps them in close games. CLE needs a better RB and true WR1 (Corey Coleman returning gives them a legit top 2 WR). That’s a team that’s actually got way more O talent than we do (OL way ahead, TE way ahead, RB similar and only 1 WR behind us) - where getting a QB makes all the difference. They can afford the cost. We can’t. Let him go to Cleveland then. I don't see him making that big of an impact here even if we could get him. I watched Cousins a lot the last two years and hes very solid and even great against bad teams. But anytime he faces a good team when it's critical to perform to make the playoffs he wilts and crumbles much like Tony Romo. The Panthers game comes to mind last year. A lot of it can be attributed to personnel but his coaching has been very solid especially having Mcvay as his coordinator the previous two years. Cousins is a gamble that I just don't view the reward as worth it. Now, for a team like Cleveland who would view making the playoffs as much as winning a superbowl. He'd be worth every penny to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Baker Mayfield looks pretty good to me...just from an eye test. Some have said he has accuracy issues; however, on the deep throws he seems to hit receivers in stride. The other player of note from yesterday that I would very much draft top 5 is Roquon Smith...dude was an animal yesterday. One of the single most dominate games I have seen a LB play outside of Von in our championship run. I like guys who show up in big games, both of them did just that yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 10:20 AM, Broncofan said: I think the magic number now goes up to 20M now and by 2018-2019 it’s likely at 25M. When the salary cap was 143M or less the magic # was 15M back in 2015. Now the cap is 167M and expected to hit 175M next year (crazy). With salary cap increases the max QB number that allows teams to compete overall is higher as more $ goes to the stars. But the notion that you can’t devote 20+ percent of your cap to QB and still expect to field a contender absolutely holds true. Peyton was 16m in 2015 and the 4m saved by making it a bonus (not paid until 2016) allowed us to get Vance Walker & Darian Stewart. We don’t win a SB without both. Fast forward to 2018 - devoting 35m when the cap is expected to be 175M is untenable. It’s also why hitting on the draft so much better - the first 4-5 years are mega cheap and the chance of extending at a relative bargain for 1-2 more years (and go full market after 5-6 years of value). I doubt we'll see any large player investments based on future salary cap increases. If revenues continue to decline we'll see a lot more quality FA's/ cap casualities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 4 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said: Baker Mayfield looks pretty good to me...just from an eye test. Some have said he has accuracy issues; however, on the deep throws he seems to hit receivers in stride. The other player of note from yesterday that I would very much draft top 5 is Roquon Smith...dude was an animal yesterday. One of the single most dominate games I have seen a LB play outside of Von in our championship run. I like guys who show up in big games, both of them did just that yesterday. I think Baker throws with amazing touch both in and out of the pocket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 2 hours ago, AKRNA said: I doubt we'll see any large player investments based on future salary cap increases. If revenues continue to decline we'll see a lot more quality FA's/ cap casualities. I wasn't referring to us specifically - just that when the cap goes up, all the extra $ overall goes to big player contracts. It's not that the base players get a big pay bump as much as the ceiling for premium positions like EDGE, CB, and yes, QB, go up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said: I think Baker throws with amazing touch both in and out of the pocket. Baker too me is looking more and more like a safe gamble. Not like a top 10 pick but late first early second. He's one of the more safer gambles I can recall. He's good in a lot of areas. I question if he'll be able to have consistent offense at the next level or just be great in spurts. But he definitely looks like a starter with high upside to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Baker is legit. I've been saying it for a while now. I just hope he plays like trash against my Dawgs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 6 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said: Baker Mayfield looks pretty good to me...just from an eye test. Some have said he has accuracy issues; however, on the deep throws he seems to hit receivers in stride. The other player of note from yesterday that I would very much draft top 5 is Roquon Smith...dude was an animal yesterday. One of the single most dominate games I have seen a LB play outside of Von in our championship run. I like guys who show up in big games, both of them did just that yesterday. Rake is a special player. He is well spoken and a great leader. He has the ability to be a Keuchley type of LBer in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Garoppolo playing really does help our chances of continuing to move up. If the Giants or Niners (or both) can find a way to keep winning, and we keep playing our current brand of football, we could slide right into that 2nd pick, and what a difference maker that would be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 2 hours ago, BroncoBruin said: I think Baker throws with amazing touch both in and out of the pocket. And, he is a leader at the most important position. Tough choice...go get a vet like Manning, or draft to better the defense, which we know can win a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Well we still pick 4th. I was really hoping the Giants were going to pull that off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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