Pick #19 is in: CB Damon Arnette, Ohio State

[RaidersAreOne]

Just now, BackinBlack said:

didnt we just get a quote saying that Arnette didnt like his coaches in 2018 lol?

or did i dream that before my coffee kicked in haha

Someone definitely posted that, @big_palooka I believe.

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[Dodo]

After reading this thread and watching the 2019 targets tape (lord knows I'm not going to watch career tape) I feel slightly better from hating it to vastly underwhelmed.

More with the process. That tidbit about them panicking once Terrell was taken is cringeworthy. Arnette was their next man up on the CB board so they just had to take him there? If they liked him as guy in the 2nd round but didn't have a pick .... maybe package two of your thirds and trade up if you covet him? Trade down and acquire said 2nd round pick? Take someone else you have a higher grade on overall at a different position? Our defense is not set. We didn't HAVE to get a CB at 19.

Arnette himself;  almost every positive can be a negative too. That aggressiveness/grabbyness can turn him into a PI/holding machine against NFL WR's, his ego can spiral into a downward slope if he should get picked apart or not gel with the coaches. Guys will quit on their teams/coaches, it happens, but they should never be stupid enough to admit it publicly. His preference for press combined with his athletic deficiencies at the next level could see him always a step behind or just a bit away even if he diagnoses things correctly. The biggest positive on the tape for me is that even with a broken wrist he hardly ever is out of position  and knows when/where to time his jumps when going to deflect a high pass and not draw PI. Often the ones completed were perfectly placed, which he's going to see a lot more of in the NFL and especially with Mahomes.

[Geezy]

who would yall have taken at 19 instead of Arnette? Don't have a problem with Mayock getting his next guy.

[NYRaider]

4 minutes ago, Geezy said:

who would yall have taken at 19 instead of Arnette? Don't have a problem with Mayock getting his next guy.

With how the board fell I would've aggressively looked to trade back. No one was taking Arnette in the first round. But if that wasn't a possibility I would've went with Chaisson. 

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[BobbyPhil1781]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

Thank you for the detailed analysis and the time it took to write!  
Your the guy who owned BayRaider in the draft forum over J Love, right? I enjoyed it! Thanks! 

do you have any more info on the injury at combine/40yd dash? I said on here several times I suspected something was up... he didn’t look 4.57 all 3 years he played and he was never considered to be a slow player like that.  Something just didn’t look “right” during his run, but I watched it a bunch of times and couldn’t place it.

i agree he’s gonna get a bunch of flags for PI, illegal contact, etc early in career. that’s almost a given. But I think he can learn to draw less flags over time.  He seemed to draw flags when he barely did anything wrong... he’s got that “looks guilty” look to refs and gets bad calls sometimes or a flag when it’s barely warranted.  Other times when he’s guilty he really didn’t need to commit the foul.  With good coaching he can limit this I think, but it’ll be his thing.  What I did like is a good % of the flags were on plays where he had the WR in front of him and drove on the ball.  You can teach guys to avoid these flags a lot more then guys who get grabby when a guy gets a step on them or just before the ball gets there.  I don’t have science to prove it but I feel like that’s really hard to change.  It’s instinctual behavior.  He actually is pretty good at turning his head to see the ball coming AND (huge AND) being able to stay with the WR and even look back to the WR at the last second and play the ball and receivers hands to knock it away.

id just add to your nice write up that he did have a decent sophomore year that was mostly in the slot... maybe you can elaborate more on that.

i like him a lot, I let people convince he he’d be available later and I got greedy... but always had him as CB4/5 overall.  I discounted him as being a CB for us because of his 30” arms and this “rule” our press corners need 32”+ and have to have speed (he ran 4.57). I’m not mad at the pick im mad Mayock had offers to move down (he said so in press conference) and didn’t.  There’s a butterfly effect that happens every time you change one time in a draft and it compounds with every pick after, so it is absolutely impossible to prove he’d have been there at 25-29,,, but we all know he woulda been.  We could have gotten a 3rd in a trade down and still gotten him, that’s why I’m mad.  With no 2nd, that third and 91 could have gotten us a pick around 50 and really made this a very good draft.  We blew an opportunity.  
 

but my very important questions to you are:

he will play a lot of press man and some cover 3 here, which he did at OSU.  Did his shorter arms effect him in this regard at times? Is it a valid concern in nfl or does his play negate it?  
 

Follow up to the first question, do you think he’ll be able to stay outside in our system or will be be eventually pushed to the slot where I think he can be a top guy still.  I’m not saying he will be pushed there for sure I’m just saying if he has to or is because someone make Isaiah Johnson thrives at outside CB and it benefits the team.

You're welcome. 

I don't feel I owned anyone but yeah, not a huge fan of Love the least bit. So happy we didn't get him but he went to the most ideal situation for him though. He needs 2-3 years to sit. 

Unfortunately no other news on the injury. I remember watching and being extremely shocked he ran that slow. The reports came out soon after and it's corroborated by the fact he didn't participate in drills afterwards. He didn't play that slow, not at all. He ran faster than that, unofficially, in previous years. I believe I saw almost 4.5 once but can't remember where. 

I can't touch on his sophomore year unfortunately as it was too long ago for me to remember and he didn't play much since we have Conley and Latimer back there. I try my best not to lie lol. 

If he's playing press, which I agree we'll use him for, I don't think there's much to worry about. Some guys will give him fits and he'll get burned at times but I don't expect him to become the best CB in the league at any time. I do feel he will be at least a two contract player for us if not more. As to where he'll play, I'm not sure but I know he can play both positions. I think his physicality will make everyone here happy. I just hope he can live up to his draft status!

[Geezy]

if he runs 4.4 hes a 1st round CB for sure. Only questions were his long speed and arm length. So, if he was held back a little at the combine I like this pick even more.  

[NYRaider]

22 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

College stats are meaningless. Ferrell had 21 sacks and 38 TFL over his last two seasons in college, both ranked 2nd best among all prospects in last years class over the same stretch. Did that production translate early in his career? Nope. What seems to be the biggest reason for that? He doesn't have elite physical tools so his game didn't translate that well, at least early on. I think we'll see the same thing with Arnette. 

[RaiderX]

2 hours ago, big_palooka said:

 

So taking Terrell at 12 and Ruggs at 19 wasn't an option?

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, RaiderX said:

So taking Terrell at 12 and Ruggs at 19 wasn't an option?

Ruggs likely would've gone to SF at #13 or Denver at #15. You then would've ran the risk of all 3 of the top WR being off the board. 

[agarcia34]

8 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

I was thinking about this earlier. I think this sets up well for Isaiah Johnson. I said last night that I think Arnette would be best at outside but I have read some things that changed my mind and I trust what those people said and think he may just be better off inside. Time for Arnette and Johnson to battle it out. 

[Geezy]

1 minute ago, agarcia34 said:

I was thinking about this earlier. I think this sets up well for Isaiah Johnson. I said last night that I think Arnette would be best at outside but I have read some things that changed my mind and I trust what those people said and think he may just be better off inside. Time for Arnette and Johnson to battle it out. 

Arnette reminds me of Chris Harris inside. 

I know the staff is high on Johnson, kid has all the tools. If he can put it all together we have the makings of a legit secondary. 

 

[Mr Raider]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

College stats are meaningless. Ferrell had 21 sacks and 38 TFL over his last two seasons in college, both ranked 2nd best among all prospects in last years class over the same stretch. Did that production translate early in his career? Nope. What seems to be the biggest reason for that? He doesn't have elite physical tools so his game didn't translate that well, at least early on. I think we'll see the same thing with Arnette. 

I mean yeah, but it used to be customary for even the best athletes trait wise to take a year or two to really produce. 

Ferrell was just as productive as Mack was as a rookie simply off numbers. Ferrell will never be what Mack was, because of the traits you're referring to. But I also don't always agree with the notion that only the elite athletes have the highest ceiling. There's always this notion that guys that are lesser athletes are more pro ready and have a higher ceiling but that isn't always the case either. 

I still think Ferrell has a lot of room to grow. I don't think he's tapped out after his rookie year where he went from playing on a stacked college line to being the real focal point on an NFL line full of other first and second year players. Not to mention dealing with the illness, weight loss, and being played on the inside. 

I think Ferrell still has a ton of room to grow. There is a baseline of required athletic ability, you have to have a certain level of athleticism, but I still think Ferrell can get stronger, I think his technique can improve more, and I think experience in general helps everyone. A lot of the time the best athletes leave you wanting, the guys that appear to have a higher ceiling are often guys with great traits but didn't produce to the level you'd expect, and so many of them fail because the transition to not simply winning because they're the better athlete never clicks for them. I've seen so many freak athletes fail and solid but unspectacular ones improve greatly because they have a better understanding of fundamentals and a better football IQ, so if two guys are equal in those areas the better athlete ends up winning out, but it seems super often those higher ceiling guys never get to that level of the lower ceiling guy that starts with a better basis of the technical stuff and because even if you're really good in that area you can always improve more. 

I don't see Ferrell ever being a 15 sack year type of guy. But can he be a dominant run defender that gets us 8-10 a year off of strength, technique, football IQ, and hustle? Certainly. And that is a super valuable DE in today's NFL. That isn't even counting his leadership qualities or coming in coming from a winning culture and helping install those principles on our young team. I like traits and athleticism as much as the next guy, but that isn't the only thing that determines ceiling to me. 

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, JTagg7754 said:

You're welcome. 

I don't feel I owned anyone but yeah, not a huge fan of Love the least bit. So happy we didn't get him but he went to the most ideal situation for him though. He needs 2-3 years to sit. 

Unfortunately no other news on the injury. I remember watching and being extremely shocked he ran that slow. The reports came out soon after and it's corroborated by the fact he didn't participate in drills afterwards. He didn't play that slow, not at all. He ran faster than that, unofficially, in previous years. I believe I saw almost 4.5 once but can't remember where. 

I can't touch on his sophomore year unfortunately as it was too long ago for me to remember and he didn't play much since we have Conley and Latimer back there. I try my best not to lie lol. 

If he's playing press, which I agree we'll use him for, I don't think there's much to worry about. Some guys will give him fits and he'll get burned at times but I don't expect him to become the best CB in the league at any time. I do feel he will be at least a two contract player for us if not more. As to where he'll play, I'm not sure but I know he can play both positions. I think his physicality will make everyone here happy. I just hope he can live up to his draft status!

You owned him,,, we’ve been cited it several times as we argued with BR about Love too.  Gotta admit he landed in the premo spot to succeed. Sits for 2 years begins Rodgers! Of course After one decent seasoN year BR will proclaim himself supreme draftnik of the universe. People here wanted by head for saving he needs 1.5-2 years to sit.  He’s the next Mahomes don’t you know... right out the gate. Lmao.

i appreciate your honesty.  I remember he got a good amount of slot snaps that year (I mean I watched a few games live and some on YouTube for the other guys and he was usually in there).... and while doing background research before watching games on YouTube after the season I read he’s played basically 600 snaps every year within a small margin (looked it up: 616 soph, 584 jr, 606 sr).  His reds/yards allowed where all incredibly close too: 29/383 soph, 29/434 jr, 25/306.  But he was targeted a lot more his Sr then Jr year (56 to 43) and his yards allowed dropped a lot.  The more telling stat to show the improvement in play is targeted:yards allowed which went from 10.09 as a junior to 5.46 As a senior  + Completion percentage allowed: which went from 67% as junior to 44% as senior.  Massive improvements 

Im pretty good at guessing 40s from film and I thought he was 4.48-4.52

his 10yd was very slow... which Would be explained by a muscle cramp or “Tweak” somewhere in his legs.  Like his 10yd split was .08-.10 off what someone who runs a 4.56 really should be at.  And he’s not “not quick”

what’s a two contract player?  Lol jk

hey if he can break a long streak of not having 2 contract guys I’d be so happy