Pick #19 is in: CB Damon Arnette, Ohio State

[RaidersAreOne]

Just now, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

I’m looking forward to seeing Abrams and Arnette bringing the wood. Keep building a bully.

They are both major trash talkers too. We're going to be an annoying team to play against haha.

[jimkelly02]

17 minutes ago, JTagg7754 said:

OK I have a little time now so I figured I'll give y'all my worthless write-up on Arnette as I'm extremely familiar w/ him. 

Note: He was reportedly injured when he ran his 40 time. Do not put much weight into that. He can hang w/ people.

First thing's first, I want to make this known that when Arnette decided he was going to come back for his Sr season, I was PISSED. There's posts in the OSU thread to confirm this. He was atrocious as a Jr. He was getting beat left and right by anyone he was covering...... then 2019 happened. I have no clue what happened to this kid but as other's have stated in here (w/ stats to support it), he was excellent last year. Absolutely excellent. I have no idea how he turned it around but maybe it was our new additions as our DC and other coaches?? Not sure, but it happened. The B1G isn't known for having speed all over the place but that doesn't mean he wasn't playing against excellent competition. KJ Hamler, Donovan Peoples-Jones (whom I REALLY hope we get today), Rashad Bateman, Nico Collins, Jahan Dotson, Tyler Johnson, Ronnie Bell, Quintez Cephus (I'll be very happy if we get him also), Rondale Moore, it didn't matter. This kid shut down everyone for the most part. Then add in our game against Clemson and their talent at WR and he did well there. Not his best game but he still did well against future first round picks and a future top overall pick in Lawrence. He got action as well. Do you think people wanted to throw much at Okudah??

Here's my brief summary:

Likes:

The kid is physical and has the size to be physical and very disruptive to routes. He will bump you at the line and get in your face and not think twice about it. He doesn't care who you are. He WILL help in run support and, again, doesn't think twice about it. Like I said, he's physical. This will also be a negative but I'm trying to keep things separate here. I'll get to that.

He's annoying to WRs. He is always all over them, around them, in their face and never leaves them alone. I saw many people get frustrated w/ him last year as he thrives on getting in people's heads. Again, this will also be a negative and I;ll get there. If he's near the WR when they're attempting to make the catch, he will make them earn it.

He is tough. Played a portion of the season w/ his hand in the cast and still didn't mind being physical even w/ that going on.

He can play both man and zone schemes. He does an excellent job of turning his head around as well when playing press and I feel his physicality can be best utilized here. He;s big enough to go at anyone he's lined up against and won't be scared to do it.

He can play inside and outside. I'm not going to pretend I know where he fits best for us but he has played both and excelled at both. Most of the time Wade was our inside guy last year but Damon did do it at times.

Dislikes:

This kid is physical and really handsy. I fear he's going to get a lot of 5 yard illegal touching penalties on him due to how he likes to play. I hope he can learn to control it a little better

He's annoying. Admittedly, I hated him coming back b/c his worst trait of 2018 was getting beat 70% of the time, the one or two times a game he actually made a play, he would get in the opposition's face and start talking *insert word*. He's kind of a PoS in that sense and others as well. He has attitude. Some people LOVE that but I hate it. I hate it a lot to be honest. Numerous times last season (b/c he broke up sooooooo many more plays than in '18), he got in people's faces after making a play and I'd be yelling at the TV to not get a personal foul called on him. He doesn't need to get this reputation b/c he will be watched if he does.

I worry about his massive jump in production from year-to-year. It's my biggest fear w/ Burrow. Which guy are we going to get??

IMO, I had Arnette  as a high second round guy so picking him at 19 doesn't make me sad at all b/c we have no other means of getting him that didn't require losing draft capital.  If he wasn't a PoS (even though our coaches said he got better this year [I didn't see it]), I'd say he's a first round talent and am actually excited we drafted him. I know I don't post here ever but those that may remember, I'm far from a homer and am more than happy to criticize my team when it's warranted. I find it hard to say many negative things about this kid after last year especially his play as it's mainly character related. He was THE surprise of the 2019 season for Ohio State. I honestly felt he would get replaced by Wade but instead, he's the reason Wade is (thankfully) coming back for his Sr season and will be a first round pick in 2021.

This would've been a massive pain the *** to type on my phone last night lol

Thank you for the detailed analysis and the time it took to write!  
Your the guy who owned BayRaider in the draft forum over J Love, right? I enjoyed it! Thanks! 

do you have any more info on the injury at combine/40yd dash? I said on here several times I suspected something was up... he didn’t look 4.57 all 3 years he played and he was never considered to be a slow player like that.  Something just didn’t look “right” during his run, but I watched it a bunch of times and couldn’t place it.

i agree he’s gonna get a bunch of flags for PI, illegal contact, etc early in career. that’s almost a given. But I think he can learn to draw less flags over time.  He seemed to draw flags when he barely did anything wrong... he’s got that “looks guilty” look to refs and gets bad calls sometimes or a flag when it’s barely warranted.  Other times when he’s guilty he really didn’t need to commit the foul.  With good coaching he can limit this I think, but it’ll be his thing.  What I did like is a good % of the flags were on plays where he had the WR in front of him and drove on the ball.  You can teach guys to avoid these flags a lot more then guys who get grabby when a guy gets a step on them or just before the ball gets there.  I don’t have science to prove it but I feel like that’s really hard to change.  It’s instinctual behavior.  He actually is pretty good at turning his head to see the ball coming AND (huge AND) being able to stay with the WR and even look back to the WR at the last second and play the ball and receivers hands to knock it away.

id just add to your nice write up that he did have a decent sophomore year that was mostly in the slot... maybe you can elaborate more on that.

i like him a lot, I let people convince he he’d be available later and I got greedy... but always had him as CB4/5 overall.  I discounted him as being a CB for us because of his 30” arms and this “rule” our press corners need 32”+ and have to have speed (he ran 4.57). I’m not mad at the pick im mad Mayock had offers to move down (he said so in press conference) and didn’t.  There’s a butterfly effect that happens every time you change one time in a draft and it compounds with every pick after, so it is absolutely impossible to prove he’d have been there at 25-29,,, but we all know he woulda been.  We could have gotten a 3rd in a trade down and still gotten him, that’s why I’m mad.  With no 2nd, that third and 91 could have gotten us a pick around 50 and really made this a very good draft.  We blew an opportunity.  
 

but my very important questions to you are:

he will play a lot of press man and some cover 3 here, which he did at OSU.  Did his shorter arms effect him in this regard at times? Is it a valid concern in nfl or does his play negate it?  
 

Follow up to the first question, do you think he’ll be able to stay outside in our system or will be be eventually pushed to the slot where I think he can be a top guy still.  I’m not saying he will be pushed there for sure I’m just saying if he has to or is because someone make Isaiah Johnson thrives at outside CB and it benefits the team.

[RaidersAreOne]

 

[OG_C2X]

In his 40s at the combine his 10 yard split looks slow but 10-40 he looks fast. That can be evidence of lack of 40 yard dash specific training or lack of explosion and quickness. His tape says the former IMO.

[Dessie]

56 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

 

This is what I thought happened. When Terrell was taken we were in a bad spot. Unfortunately everybody knew we wanted a WR/CB combination. 

[reddevil]

Just now, Dessie said:

This is what I thought happened. When Terrell was taken we were in a bad spot. Unfortunately everybody knew we wanted a WR/CB combination. 

Yeah I mean it’s easy to play the hindsight game about trading back, but I imagine that regardless of how many times you’ve run simulations, it comes down to guessing whether or not there is any chance the teams behind you might take your guy. Even if you have slight doubts, I can see the rationale behind playing it safe and not risking moving from your spot.

There are so many layers to each decision and all the preparation you have done won’t override what your gut tells you in that moment and tests how much you want a specific player. I think after Terrell went, they viewed Arnette as the best option for their type of CB. You could tell from the video clip of Mayock punching the air that he really wanted him. 

[jimkelly02]

1 minute ago, Dessie said:

This is what I thought happened. When Terrell was taken we were in a bad spot. Unfortunately everybody knew we wanted a WR/CB combination. 

I suspected Terrell was the guy desired and Arnette was a 1b option.  
 

but Mayock absolutely said he didn’t call any teams to trade down but some teams called him.  And they chose to say no.  
 

https://youtu.be/gCWoh4B9sMU

@2:15 and @3:40

its clear as day in his voice that there were valid trade downs in the first round where he was very very likely to get Arnette still.  He knows he values Arnette more than I’d guesstimate 28/32 teams.  As long as he stayed before 29 It was a lock we’d be able to get Arnette still.  
Again there’s too much butterfly effect that happens if you change one pick.  10 picks later it’d take a Cal-Berkeley stat graduate to come close to proving it.  But we all KNOW with almost absolute certainty he was going before 29. It’s obvious from Mayocks voice he knows it.  He chose the value added wasn’t worth that small risk.  He must have felt like he could live with not getting Terrell but not getting Arnette and having to take Fulton, Johnson, Diggs, etc wasn’t worth it.  He’s shown for 2 years in a row that he’ll take chances in later rounds but not round 1.  He has to get his top guy.  That’s his core of the draft.

my assertion is you have to weigh risks. Your not going to rebuild a bad team through taking Ferrell at 4 and Arnette at 19.  There’s was a 99% chance Arnette would be available if we traded down to 25-29.  It was obvious we’d see a run on CBs start after 30 and go til probably around 45-50 when the top 8 guys are gone.  Watch tonight 1-2 of Fulton, Diggs, and Johnson go within the first few picks of round 2 and The remaining 1-2 by pick 44-50, unless theirs issues we don’t know about in the public.

Say we just got a 3rd for the trade down, now Arnette isn’t a reach and we got value and we can move up into the second with 2 of 4 3rds.  It’s like trading 19,91 for Arnette at 25-29 and #48-52.  There’s gonna be a guy there who There that really helps the team.

[Dessie]

16 minutes ago, reddevil said:

Yeah I mean it’s easy to play the hindsight game about trading back, but I imagine that regardless of how many times you’ve run simulations, it comes down to guessing whether or not there is any chance the teams behind you might take your guy. Even if you have slight doubts, I can see the rationale behind playing it safe and not risking moving from your spot.

There are so many layers to each decision and all the preparation you have done won’t override what your gut tells you in that moment and tests how much you want a specific player. I think after Terrell went, they viewed Arnette as the best option for their type of CB. You could tell from the video clip of Mayock punching the air that he really wanted him. 

Let’s be honest we would be disappointed if they didn’t want him when they took him at #19.

i totally get not being able to trade back but was the reason Terrell was taken at #16 because the Falcons knew we wanted him so didn’t want to trade and miss out on him. Just think we were left in a bad spot (again) and ended having to reach like with Ferrell. 

Like I said before the more I see the more I like of Arnette but there is no doubting it was another bad value pick.

[NYRaider]

25 minutes ago, reddevil said:

Yeah I mean it’s easy to play the hindsight game about trading back, but I imagine that regardless of how many times you’ve run simulations, it comes down to guessing whether or not there is any chance the teams behind you might take your guy. Even if you have slight doubts, I can see the rationale behind playing it safe and not risking moving from your spot.

It's just hilarious to hear Mayock say that teams who reach for need get into trouble and then reach big time at #4 last year and again at #19 this year. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

I thought we were still riding the “foundational piece” draft strategy lol

[massraider]

Mayock interview, sounds like they did a ton of work on the kid, feels like he became a target of theirs in the spring. Visited OSU, talked to the coaches about him, etc.

[Mr Raider]

I would have preferred Fulton, but I seem to be much higher on him than the majority of the media and NFL teams since he's still available (and I thought clearly better than the last couple corners that came off the board at the end of the first. 

That said, Arnette was a guy I liked when I watched. I think he has a lot of good qualities and traits at the CB position. I didn't watch as much of him as I did some of the other handful of corners expected to go towards the end of the first to top of the second because Arnette's media "value" seemed to hang pretty consistently in the second round range, so I didn't think he was as likely a target as the other guys. 

What I did watch though led me to believe he is incredibly physical. He gets in guys faces and stays there all night. It's hard not to like that. He doesn't seem to possess elite ball skills but he does do a good job of at least turning his head around and playing the ball, something that if you dont do regularly gets you flagged in today's NFL. He has good size (though the short arms arent ideal) and when I watched him I didn't see a guy that was a total disadvantage because of a total lack of long speed. Part of that is because hes so successful at getting his hands on guys and disrupting their release, but even when he didn't he seemed to have good enough recovery speed. Could that become more of a glaring issue at the NFL level? Absolutely. We'll have to see. 

I saw a guy that will come up and lay the wood in run support, a sure tackler (by corner standards) even when he had a cast on his hand, and a really scrappy and competitive DB. Something that I look for in every athlete but something I really like to see in my DB's. 

He strikes me as the type of guy that isn't likely to be a total bust that is a complete liability and you're begging for him to hit the pine before then begging for him to be released. I think he has all the tools of a top tier slot corner and while I hope he wasn't drafted with that being the primary motivation it's never a bad thing when a guy can play all over to add value. I think he can stick on the outside, and hopefully Johnson takes a step forward and we have 3 really physical, young corners that get in the wideouts face and make their Sundays a nightmare. We'll see on that. But at the end of the day Arnette will be given every opportunity to start opposite Mullen, and I think those guys could be two corners that have some growing pains but really develop nicely, especially if Abram can be what I think he can be and help be an eraser on the backend. Again maybe not the direction I would have went, but it all fits into the philosophy we seem to want to build. We want to man up and get physical with WRs, which means taller, longer, stronger guys that may not be 4.3 guys but balance that out by just being a pain for wideouts to work for releases against for 60 minutes. I can get behind that. I don't think a guy like him is going to be an outright bust, he'll be able to fill a role and do it at least solidly. And in the NFL draft where so many guys bust and don't add much value at all in any capacity that's not the worst thing in the world. Particularly in this draft class where I thought there was a pretty significant drop off from the top 15-16 players. I think there's a host of guys that went from 19 all the way through the second round that were comparable talents. I don't believe we passed up any blue chip prospects for him. So at that point it mostly comes down to who you think fits what your plan and scheme the best and that you feel confident can be a solid, if unspectacular starter.

I imagine he will struggle some with getting flagged, especially early in his career, but I don't mind that as much as some. The Seahawks and Patriots have a history of super physical and aggressive man corners that are more penalized than most teams. It's not a bad philosophy either. Sure you'll get flagged more than other teams, but refs are human, even without meaning to their bias can get in the way, if getting flagged a little more sets the bar for your corners being physical they get the benefit of the doubt in hard fought playoff type games. If it changes the baseline qnd forces the refs to realize if we call the way they play a PI regularly we're going to make 30 PI calls today it can make a difference. 

[Geezy]

1 hour ago, Dessie said:

This is what I thought happened. When Terrell was taken we were in a bad spot. Unfortunately everybody knew we wanted a WR/CB combination. 

yea, moving forward, without any glaring holes on our roster we will be harder to read. Last 3 drafts weve been very predictable. 

[massraider]

Well, heck yes.

[BackinBlack]

didnt we just get a quote saying that Arnette didnt like his coaches in 2018 lol?

or did i dream that before my coffee kicked in haha