The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[raidr4life]

29 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

 

Hope he can nail Ruggs for 60 yards

[bucksavage1]

2 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Hope he can nail Ruggs for 60 yards

One of the most puzzling things about Carr is that he has the tools to throw deep he just doesn't

[MrOaktown_56]

5 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

We have the 2nd highest paid backup QB next to Nick Foles in the NFL. Yes, there's a shot but the early bye week gives the staff a reason to pull Carr early if ineffective

You didn't really answer my question. I'd put $ on it that mariota doesn't start the season. Or play meaningful snaps this year.

[Frankie2Gunz]

15 minutes ago, bucksavage1 said:

One of the most puzzling things about Carr is that he has the tools to throw deep he just doesn't

Don't you think the reason he hasn't gone deep is because he hasn't trusted his trash WR's?  I wouldn't trust the bums to gain separation or win contested throws on deep balls either.  

It seems pretty obvious why he has not gone deep to me and clearly the Raiders brass was not happy with our garbage WR's. Carr clearly has the skills I just don't understand how fans can't see what is so obvious.  It's perplexing that you guys think he should be throwing deep to Zay Jones, Ateman, Gafford etc.  If you think he should be going deep to those guys you need to go back to football 101.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Frankie2Gunz

[MrOaktown_56]

Just now, Frankie2Gunz said:

Don't you think the reason he hasn't gone deep is because he hasn't trusted his trash WR's?  I wouldn't trust the bums to gain separation or win contested throws on deep balls either.  

It seems pretty obvious why he has not gone deep to me and clearly the Raiders brass was not happy with our garbage WR's.

Drafting 2 pure WR in the first 3 rounds, signing Agholor (who could be more of a factor than we think), and drafting Bowden, who can be a capable slot is a pretty damning indictment on the WR group.

For those complaining about lack of throws to WR, the 2nd half consisted of Zay Jones, a hobbled Tyrell Williams, and Renfrow (who was very effective) who was in and out of the lineup in the 2nd half of the season. Are you really surprised that we were ineffective in scoring points?

Compare that to Ruggs, a healthyWilliams, Renfrow, and backups of Edwards and Agholor and that's a world of difference. 

[MrOaktown_56]

I'm quite confused about the RB TE argument as well. Jacobs was not even in for Carr to throw to because of his injury. What's more, Waller IS near elite and Carr targeted him and he was the 2nd most productive tight end in the NFL. Moreau also had 5 TD as a rookie with limited PT. 

I saw an offense that was what it was. I thought he did fine with what he had to work with. Several users on NFL gen (with no ties to the Raiders whatsoever) agreed.

A qb needs to get yards by going to WR. Our WR objectively were one of the worst groups in the league. PFF had us ranked 31/32 teams in WR grade (not that PFF is some kind of end all be all, but that's pretty terrible). Carr was still 8th in passing yards this year and set a career high YPA in a mediocre offense.

Does that mean he always played well? Of course not.  But I'm sure he can put up a lot more #'s and points this year with the injection of talent that Grudock has provided.

Sure, if he plays bad this year, no one will be in favor of him continuing to play. Including me. It just wouldn't make sense. 

But really, are some of you not expecting Carr to play well this year? I think everything is there for him (including 3rd year in a system for the first time) to have a career year in Gruden's offense.

[raidr4life]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I'm quite confused about the RB TE argument as well. Jacobs was not even in for Carr to throw to because of his injury. What's more, Waller IS near elite and Carr targeted him and he was the 2nd most productive tight end in the NFL. Moreau also had 5 TD as a rookie with limited PT. 

I saw an offense that was what it was. I thought he did fine with what he had to work with. Several users on NFL gen (with no ties to the Raiders whatsoever) agreed.

A qb needs to get yards by going to WR. Our WR objectively were one of the worst groups in the league. PFF had us ranked 31/32 teams in WR grade (not that PFF is some kind of end all be all, but that's pretty terrible). Carr was still 8th in passing yards this year and set a career high YPA in a mediocre offense.

Does that mean he always played well? Of course not.  But I'm sure he can put up a lot more #'s and points this year with the injection of talent that Grudock has provided.

Sure, if he plays bad this year, no one will be in favor of him continuing to play. Including me. It just wouldn't make sense. 

But really, are some of you not expecting Carr to play well this year? I think everything is there for him (including 3rd year in a system for the first time) to have a career year in Gruden's offense.

I hope so, but I'm not so sure, again I rooted for Carr harder than anyone, and it's not a question of his talent, but the last 2 years there have been things that disturb me watching him. Maybe it's mental, his demeanor on the field has been  lackluster, he plays scared and that's not questioning his toughness. It seems like he's always worried about the rush when he has one of the best OL in the league, and just leaves too many plays on the field, misses way to many opportunities for 1st downs, it doesn't seem like he wants it at times. He's the starter no question, but if the offense is stalling under him, Mariota will get the call.

Edited May 9, 2020 by raidr4life

[MrOaktown_56]

1 hour ago, raidr4life said:

I hope so, but I'm not so sure, again I rooted for Carr harder than anyone, and it's not a question of his talent, but the last 2 years there have been things that disturb me watching him. Maybe it's mental, his demeanor on the field has been  lackluster, he plays scared and that's not questioning his toughness. It seems like he's always worried about the rush when he has one of the best OL in the league, and just leaves too many plays on the field, misses way to many opportunities for 1st downs, it doesn't seem like he wants it at times. He's the starter no question, but if the offense is stalling under him, Mariota will get the call.

Agree with the bolded.

Regarding the "plays on the field" , I do think every qb leaves plays on the field. Agree that there are times here and there that he can run and does not, but I also think our O as a whole left too many plays on the field. Way too many offensive penalties. Some shaky play calling at times which seemed overly conservative (a large part of that was Gruden). I think if we called more pass plays on 2nd down and weren't as predictable, it would be helpful for sure.

I think a lack of trust in a bad WR group and gruden not really calling a lot of vertical pass plays hurt the offense and Carr as well. When he had healthy targets (e.g. lions game) and gruden ran more spread plays/shotgun concepts and mulitple vert route combinations, he actually looked at his best.

Again, let's see how this plays out.  I have no problem with dropping him for Mariota if he doesn's play well in theory. I do have faith that he will play very well this year tho.

[true2form]

 Also there's a big difference with wanting him replaced before anything has even happened, which some clearly want and expect already, and having him replaced x games into the season.  

I'm open to him being replaced if he deserves to be, be open to him staying in if he deserves that as well.

[raidr4life]

23 minutes ago, true2form said:

 Also there's a big difference with wanting him replaced before anything has even happened, which some clearly want and expect already, and having him replaced x games into the season.  

I'm open to him being replaced if he deserves to be, be open to him staying in if he deserves that as well.

No question if he's playing like 2016 Carr when he looked like he was becoming elite, everybody will be happy. I just don't see that guy anymore hopefully I'm wrong..

2019 highlight package I don't care what anybody say's Renfrow has football speed.

 

[drfrey13]

5 hours ago, raidr4life said:

Hope he can nail Ruggs for 60 yards

I do not want to turn this into a Carr bashing thing but as soon as I saw it said hitting the crossbar my first thought was he is good at throwing it out of the endzone, throwing it away, throwing with no one in coverage, or no pressure.  Sorry but it just popped into my head.

[Chali21]

7 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I do not want to turn this into a Carr bashing thing but as soon as I saw it said hitting the crossbar my first thought was he is good at throwing it out of the endzone, throwing it away, throwing with no one in coverage, or no pressure.  Sorry but it just popped into my head.

It is certainly something that is concern all Raider fans and it won’t change until he shows something new. 

[massraider]

9 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Agree with the bolded.

Regarding the "plays on the field" , I do think every qb leaves plays on the field. Agree that there are times here and there that he can run and does not, but I also think our O as a whole left too many plays on the field. Way too many offensive penalties. Some shaky play calling at times which seemed overly conservative (a large part of that was Gruden). I think if we called more pass plays on 2nd down and weren't as predictable, it would be helpful for sure.

I think a lack of trust in a bad WR group and gruden not really calling a lot of vertical pass plays hurt the offense and Carr as well. When he had healthy targets (e.g. lions game) and gruden ran more spread plays/shotgun concepts and mulitple vert route combinations, he actually looked at his best.

Again, let's see how this plays out.  I have no problem with dropping him for Mariota if he doesn's play well in theory. I do have faith that he will play very well this year tho.

I was horsing around on Player Profiler, looking at various QB metrics they have.  Carr performs very well in most categories I looked at, aside from the Y/A stuff. 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/data-analysis/

23rd in 'interceptable passes'. (1 is bad, 32 is great). 10th in dropped passes. 59% red Zone Completion% (near Rodgers/Wentz/Cousins). 5th in Clean Pocket Completion%.  2nd behind Brees in True Completion%. 6th in True Passer Rating. 2nd in Accuracy Rating.  

Carr's unwillingness to chuck it deep, I wonder if it's a fatal flaw. He does almost everything well you can measure a QB at, he just doesn't throw it deep. At this point, I'm like, OK, he doesn't like to throw it deep. What else can't he do/does he not do? 

Not sure what else there is. Intangibles, lack of magic, I guess? 

Going by the metrics, I don't see an easily replaceable QB. 

[MrOaktown_56]

7 hours ago, massraider said:

I was horsing around on Player Profiler, looking at various QB metrics they have.  Carr performs very well in most categories I looked at, aside from the Y/A stuff. 

https://www.playerprofiler.com/data-analysis/

23rd in 'interceptable passes'. (1 is bad, 32 is great). 10th in dropped passes. 59% red Zone Completion% (near Rodgers/Wentz/Cousins). 5th in Clean Pocket Completion%.  2nd behind Brees in True Completion%. 6th in True Passer Rating. 2nd in Accuracy Rating.  

Carr's unwillingness to chuck it deep, I wonder if it's a fatal flaw. He does almost everything well you can measure a QB at, he just doesn't throw it deep. At this point, I'm like, OK, he doesn't like to throw it deep. What else can't he do/does he not do? 

Not sure what else there is. Intangibles, lack of magic, I guess? 

Going by the metrics, I don't see an easily replaceable QB. 

I don't think he's unwilling. I think there are a lot of factors at play. Hence I think this year we'll see more deep passes, including more that are directly schemed by Gruden.

[dante9876]

Carr would have to totally flop to get replace by mariota by week 5. All this talk about how hard Gruden system is to learn and we think mariota with maybe a shortened offseason is gonna be ready week 5 to lead the offense. I doubt that alot.

 

As far as what kinda numbers carr needs to put up to keep his job or be deem successful or whatever. I honestly dont know. I want to see improvement on the numbers from last year. But biggest thing for me is, i want him to look like a qb we can win a superbowl with. I want him to stand strong in pocket and let deep routes develop and wait that extra second to go down field. I want him to not checkdown so fast in his progressions. I want him to throw with anticipation and throw wrs open more. I want him to be willing to take a hit to make a throw more often. I want him to not to give up on plays. I want him to will them to wins. I want a better, more experienced, less conservative version of 2016 Carr.