The QB Thread: Everything Carr, Stidham and beyond...

[Jerry]

20 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

I haven’t seen anyone blame the team’s season on Carr. What I’ve seen is a contingent of the fan base grow tired of the Groundhog’s Day scenario of us starting out strong before finishing roughly .500 season after season. Carr’s play drops off noticeably from November 1st on every season and he has yet to start a playoff game in 8 seasons. 

He is not to blame for the ineptness of the front office but he also hasn’t done anything to make people believe he would perform any differently down the stretch with a better supporting cast. 
 

I’m personally in the camp of starting over from scratch from the top down. Carr represents our most valuable trade chip to jumpstart the rebuild and the stars are aligned for him to fetch us a great return this off-season (cheap 1-year contract, dry QB free agent market, poor QB draft class).

After 8 years Carr has delivered 1 winning season. If the opportunity cost of trading Carr takes us from a .500 team to a .375 team then that’s a risk I’m willing to take. If we can get 2 1st’s for DC then I’m happy to send him on his way and thank him for his 8 years of service. 
 

If we can only get a 1st and a 3rd then I’m inclined to keep him through 2022, then franchise tag and shop him thereafter. 

We traded K. Mack and Cooper for 3 firsts and look where that got us.  I'd rather trade first round picks for superstars like the Rams than to try and draft a bunch of superstar players (we never ever hit in the first).

[MrOaktown_56]

33 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

I haven’t seen anyone blame the team’s season on Carr. What I’ve seen is a contingent of the fan base grow tired of the Groundhog’s Day scenario of us starting out strong before finishing roughly .500 season after season. Carr’s play drops off noticeably from November 1st on every season and he has yet to start a playoff game in 8 seasons. 

He is not to blame for the ineptness of the front office but he also hasn’t done anything to make people believe he would perform any differently down the stretch with a better supporting cast. 
 

I’m personally in the camp of starting over from scratch from the top down. Carr represents our most valuable trade chip to jumpstart the rebuild and the stars are aligned for him to fetch us a great return this off-season (cheap 1-year contract, dry QB free agent market, poor QB draft class).

After 8 years Carr has delivered 1 winning season. If the opportunity cost of trading Carr takes us from a .500 team to a .375 team then that’s a risk I’m willing to take. If we can get 2 1st’s for DC then I’m happy to send him on his way and thank him for his 8 years of service. 
 

If we can only get a 1st and a 3rd then I’m inclined to keep him through 2022, then franchise tag and shop him thereafter. 

I think this is hard to say. If you give him good weapons, he can tear you up. If you give him this mess, well... he'll be okay. Which is 90% of qb's. I think the stretch thing is overrated. He has had bad and good games early and late in the year.

Kurt Warner breaks it down well. The key is having a coach to push him to be aggressive. If Kurt was our qb coach, I think he could push DC to the next level. That being said, I am happy to move on for Wilson/Rodgers. I just don't think it's realistic. I'd rather build an actual team then trade him once we can draft a young ascending player.

[jpaulthe1st]

19 minutes ago, Jerry said:

We traded K. Mack and Cooper for 3 firsts and look where that got us.  I'd rather trade first round picks for superstars like the Rams than to try and draft a bunch of superstar players (we never ever hit in the first).

My whole post is based on the assumption that we bring in sound front office minds that won’t screw up the draft selections. I DO NOT want those picks entrusted to Mayock. 

[jpaulthe1st]

7 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think this is hard to say. If you give him good weapons, he can tear you up. If you give him this mess, well... he'll be okay. Which is 90% of qb's. I think the stretch thing is overrated. He has had bad and good games early and late in the year.

Kurt Warner breaks it down well. The key is having a coach to push him to be aggressive. If Kurt was our qb coach, I think he could push DC to the next level. That being said, I am happy to move on for Wilson/Rodgers. I just don't think it's realistic. I'd rather build an actual team then trade him once we can draft a young ascending player.

Agreed with Carr performing better when he’s pushed. 
 

As far as his play down the stretch, I’ll defer to @NYRaiderfor his statistical acumen. I’m pretty confident the stat disparity is significant. 

[big_palooka]

26 minutes ago, Jerry said:

We traded K. Mack and Cooper for 3 firsts and look where that got us.  I'd rather trade first round picks for superstars like the Rams than to try and draft a bunch of superstar players (we never ever hit in the first).

I understand what you are saying, but just because the FO was/is terrible does not mean the upcoming FO will suffer the same fate.

Get the right people in the building and let them do what they want to build the franchise. Stop with these quick fix ideas. 

The Rams work because McVey is a hell of a coach and they are an organization built on consistency in their systems. 

[MrOaktown_56]

33 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Agreed with Carr performing better when he’s pushed. 
 

As far as his play down the stretch, I’ll defer to @NYRaiderfor his statistical acumen. I’m pretty confident the stat disparity is significant. 

I'm talking about this year in particular. 

[Humble_Beast]

I wish we traded for Jalen Ramsey , we had a history of an elite alpha CB. 

[dante9876]

5 hours ago, big_palooka said:

I understand what you are saying, but just because the FO was/is terrible does not mean the upcoming FO will suffer the same fate.

Get the right people in the building and let them do what they want to build the franchise. Stop with these quick fix ideas. 

The Rams work because McVey is a hell of a coach and they are an organization built on consistency in their systems. 

It also works cause the best player on offense and the best player on defense was both drafted by the team. And are both superstars. 

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said:

Agreed with Carr performing better when he’s pushed. 
 

As far as his play down the stretch, I’ll defer to @NYRaiderfor his statistical acumen. I’m pretty confident the stat disparity is significant. 

Carr has regressed as the season has gone on in each of the last 3 years which is one of the main reasons we've collapsed, he doesn't play well in the cold weather. And for me there are just too many instances of Carr completely crapping the bed in games we needed to win against bad teams. The Jets game in 2019, Falcons last year, and Giants this season. People can blame Mark Davis, Gruden, or Mayock, they didn't force Carr to just completely fold against terrible teams.

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think this is hard to say. If you give him good weapons, he can tear you up. If you give him this mess, well... he'll be okay. Which is 90% of qb's. I think the stretch thing is overrated. He has had bad and good games early and late in the year.

Kurt Warner breaks it down well. The key is having a coach to push him to be aggressive. If Kurt was our qb coach, I think he could push DC to the next level. That being said, I am happy to move on for Wilson/Rodgers. I just don't think it's realistic. I'd rather build an actual team then trade him once we can draft a young ascending player.

That's how I feel, can Carr thrive with a good defense, offensive line, run game, and weapons around him? Definitely. But so can guys like Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Jimmy G. The biggest issue with Carr going forward is that if we are planning on him being the starter next year that means he's getting a long, expensive extension. We have some pieces but the team lacks top tier talent and we have very little depth across the board. So if you pay Carr top tier money how are you going to improve the rest of the team around him? And who on our team, particularly on offense, do you see and think that they may improve going forward? Maybe Bryan Edwards and Leatherwood? Renfrow is good but he is what he is, Jacobs has regressed and typically RB's don't just have a resurgence, and Waller has regressed plus is getting older.

[NYRaider]

6 hours ago, Jerry said:

We traded K. Mack and Cooper for 3 firsts and look where that got us.  I'd rather trade first round picks for superstars like the Rams than to try and draft a bunch of superstar players (we never ever hit in the first).

The Rams are good because they have drafted extremely well. They've hit on a ton of mid round picks so even when they've lost players to injury (Woods, Akers) or free agency (JJ3, Littleton, Joyner) they have someone on their roster ready to fill the void.

[MrOaktown_56]

30 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Carr has regressed as the season has gone on in each of the last 3 years which is one of the main reasons we've collapsed, he doesn't play well in the cold weather. And for me there are just too many instances of Carr completely crapping the bed in games we needed to win against bad teams. The Jets game in 2019, Falcons last year, and Giants this season. People can blame Mark Davis, Gruden, or Mayock, they didn't force Carr to just completely fold against terrible teams.

Sure. I respect it. He has definitely opened himself up for some criticism. I have no idea how he missed a few of those throws in the giants game. He can hit insane throws and then misses a few ducks.

[MrOaktown_56]

26 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

That's how I feel, can Carr thrive with a good defense, offensive line, run game, and weapons around him? Definitely. But so can guys like Kirk Cousins, Jared Goff, Carson Wentz, and Jimmy G. The biggest issue with Carr going forward is that if we are planning on him being the starter next year that means he's getting a long, expensive extension. We have some pieces but the team lacks top tier talent and we have very little depth across the board. So if you pay Carr top tier money how are you going to improve the rest of the team around him? And who on our team, particularly on offense, do you see and think that they may improve going forward? Maybe Bryan Edwards and Leatherwood? Renfrow is good but he is what he is, Jacobs has regressed and typically RB's don't just have a resurgence, and Waller has regressed plus is getting older.

I definitely am not paying him top of the market. If he won't take 30-35, move on.

[NYRaider]

2 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I definitely am not paying him top of the market. If he won't take 30-35, move on.

I wouldn't commit to Carr long term. He has a ton of trade value going into the off-season, we need to capitalize on it. I think it's honestly in the best interest of Carr and the team to move on after this year. Send Carr somewhere that is a QB away from being competitive and give him a chance to win. While also receiving premium draft capital back to accelerate a rebuild/retooling of the roster. When you look around the league, what is the one common thing that essentially every good team has in common? They weren't afraid to move on from average quarterback play. 

The Cardinals moved on from Rosen to Murray, Bucs from Winston to Brady, Chiefs from Smith to Mahomes, Rams from Goff to Stafford, Bills from Taylor to Allen, Ravens from Flacco to Jackson, Patriots from Cam to Mac, Bengals from Dalton to Burrow, Chargers from Rivers to Herbert. 

You have an extremely large sample size of teams that have moved on from a quarterback that they either drafted highly or who had been a long term starter there and almost immediately finding someone better/winning more. 

[MrOaktown_56]

2 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I wouldn't commit to Carr long term. He has a ton of trade value going into the off-season, we need to capitalize on it. I think it's honestly in the best interest of Carr and the team to move on after this year. Send Carr somewhere that is a QB away from being competitive and give him a chance to win. While also receiving premium draft capital back to accelerate a rebuild/retooling of the roster. When you look around the league, what is the one common thing that essentially every good team has in common? They weren't afraid to move on from average quarterback play. 

The Cardinals moved on from Rosen to Murray, Bucs from Winston to Brady, Chiefs from Smith to Mahomes, Rams from Goff to Stafford, Bills from Taylor to Allen, Ravens from Flacco to Jackson, Patriots from Cam to Mac, Bengals from Dalton to Burrow, Chargers from Rivers to Herbert. 

You have an extremely large sample size of teams that have moved on from a quarterback that they either drafted highly or who had been a long term starter there and almost immediately finding someone better/winning more. 

Again I'm down but I'm also keen on the coach/GM being right. If we get the right guys, I'm happy with whatever they want to do.