2021 NFL Draft Thread

[jimkelly02]

23 hours ago, big_palooka said:

No hindsight here. The dumbest "analysis" of a dominate WR is where they took snaps in a college offense.

Jefferson was a smooth route running with great hands and great through contact. 

The reason he was the 5th WR taken was the same reason Ruggs with the first WR taken. Stacked class, depended on who you liked. 

That’s easy to say in hindsight but If you don’t see a WR play on the outside in college and his success is predicated on finding soft spots in zone coverage plus he has Chase drawing coverage away from him then it is a valid question for Scouts to ask if he will Be able to beat press at the line and get clean releases and if he’ll be able to get separation (especially in man coverage) at the next level.

he spent 5 snaps on the outside in his Jr year (according To PFF’s draft guide).  His sophomore year he played on the outside and was decent but certainly wasn’t considered a top talent in his draft class.

it wasn’t just that he didn’t play outside.... is was that scouts didn’t see the traits necessary to win on the outside from his play in the slot.  Also, he went from a listed 6’3 to just over 6’1 when measured.

Jefferson also landed in an ideal scenario for rookie year success.  Minnesota targeted him a ton because they had no one else besides Thielen. 

And it’s not like scouts didn’t have the guy as a top 15/20 player, many did.  There were 4 very closely ranked WRs and it came down to what WRs fit the next team drafting a WR.  Jefferson Exceeded expectations and showed scouts he could have the same success outside as he can inside.  But the question marks were nonetheless still valid at the time.

[agarcia34]

Is there any position on defense they would pick at 17 that would upset yall? Mainly ask because they're in that sweet spot for one of the top 3 CBs. 

[big_palooka]

7 minutes ago, agarcia34 said:

Is there any position on defense they would pick at 17 that would upset yall? Mainly ask because they're in that sweet spot for one of the top 3 CBs. 

Talent is so poor, the best player available at any spot on defense is fine with me. I'd rather draft a CB with impact potential over reaching for Dline for need.

[Totty]

1 minute ago, big_palooka said:

Talent is so poor, the best player available at any spot on defense is fine with me. I'd rather draft a CB with impact potential over reaching for Dline for need.

I've been thinking about this.  I know Mullen and Arnette are supposed to be our 1-2.  Here's the thing, this is a passing league.  If you can't get pressure, you better be able to cover.  Period. 

[agarcia34]

We play in a passing league where you’re playing with 3 cbs for majority of the game. I really like Jaycee and he has that lock down potential. 

[jimkelly02]

3 hours ago, agarcia34 said:

Is there any position on defense they would pick at 17 that would upset yall? Mainly ask because they're in that sweet spot for one of the top 3 CBs. 

There’s a noticeable drop after CB3 in Horn but idk if he’s worth 17.... he doesn’t wowwww me.

[jimkelly02]

6 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Aha, so you've come back round to @BayRaiderand my way of thinking after trying to sell us on Arnette's value at 19 😀😀 🍻 

To be fair I always was opposed to Arnette at 17.... but I didn’t mind taking him in the first.  
If we traded down with one of the teams that MM admitted offered us a trade (likely for a 3rd,5th, 2021 pick) and taken Arnette I’d have no complaints.

I feel I’ve been pretty consistent with that opinion.  The only thing that changed was when it became known Arnette was something like 4.43 not 4.57 I felt he was back into the first round CB group.  I certainly had him above Noah I from Auburn.

[jimkelly02]

6 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I'm pretty sure he was hurt.

Yes Ferrell was hurt not too scared to workout at combine.

again it really shocks me how many people forgot that Ferrell was mocked to us heavily at 4 pre combine and even right after he was a top 10/12 pick.  His “stock” to the media dropped off at the last moment but I believe GMs had him in the 7-12 range.

[jimkelly02]

I just want to stress again that we should absolutely trade down from 17 is no one seriously drops to us and stack Up picks in rounds 2-5.... there is going to be seriously gold values in those rounds.  And with hardly a season and no combine there will be a lot of steals and busts.... so increasing the chances with extra picks would really help.

not to mention with the cap dropping and we’re not in great cap shape.... if we can increase the number of mid round picks we have to fill out the roster with cheap players instead of keeping guys like Richard (3.5m) and Heath (3m+) and whatver veteran FAs we would likely otherwise sign then we would have more cap room for top FA players of starting caliber.

[Humble_Beast]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

Yes Ferrell was hurt not too scared to workout at combine.

again it really shocks me how many people forgot that Ferrell was mocked to us heavily at 4 pre combine and even right after he was a top 10/12 pick.  His “stock” to the media dropped off at the last moment but I believe GMs had him in the 7-12 range.

I honest don’t really remember that. I remember everyone thought we were going get Josh Allen, and people were shocked we passed on him.

[Humble_Beast]

58 minutes ago, jimkelly02 said:

I just want to stress again that we should absolutely trade down from 17 is no one seriously drops to us and stack Up picks in rounds 2-5.... there is going to be seriously gold values in those rounds.  And with hardly a season and no combine there will be a lot of steals and busts.... so increasing the chances with extra picks would really help.

not to mention with the cap dropping and we’re not in great cap shape.... if we can increase the number of mid round picks we have to fill out the roster with cheap players instead of keeping guys like Richard (3.5m) and Heath (3m+) and whatver veteran FAs we would likely otherwise sign then we would have more cap room for top FA players of starting caliber.

Last year not having a second killed us. So much talent getting snatched up and we couldn’t do much about it. 

Edited January 18, 2021 by Humble_Beast

[NCOUGHMAN]

On 1/16/2021 at 6:35 PM, jimkelly02 said:

The fact you are asking means you were totally unaware of the issues Jefferson had.  It’s not that I’m some jerk that won’t provide a link.  I’d be more than willing to email you PFF’s draft guide.... which I ordered everyone on this board in the past.  

and literally every scouting report you can find from a google search of “Justin Jefferson + nfl draft scouting report” will make major note of it.
The questions concerning Jefferson being able to play outside was highly highly discussed, so it’s not some minor detail.  
 

PM me your email if you want the PFF draft guide.

 

I trust myself more than pff but thanks for the offer. I honestly just saw I guy basically win vs almost every db. I also determined he was the most sure handed as first I liked devonte from bama and claypool then devonte stayed so I moved on to the huge Clemson wr but Jeff had most complete package and the best hands. When I saw that 4 td game I was sold plus like I mentioned back then in the nfl guys go into motion so much I dont put too much stock into where they line up. A #1 we should be able to do everything and play every wr position. Imo hr3 is a classic slot guy and I knew he’d struggle in the nfl. Notice how none of that mentioned pff or draft notes. I’m just a film junky man.

[Darbsk]

4 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

To be fair I always was opposed to Arnette at 17.... but I didn’t mind taking him in the first.  
If we traded down with one of the teams that MM admitted offered us a trade (likely for a 3rd,5th, 2021 pick) and taken Arnette I’d have no complaints.

I feel I’ve been pretty consistent with that opinion.  The only thing that changed was when it became known Arnette was something like 4.43 not 4.57 I felt he was back into the first round CB group.  I certainly had him above Noah I from Auburn.

Yeh, I know you were up in arms at first and we had some really good discussions. You did some great homework on that Arnette 40 and I was only joking really 😀

[big_palooka]

The sad part of the Mack/Cooper trades is the team ended up with 5 first round picks over 2 years and they stayed in their spot and reached every time.

With those 5 picks, they could have gotten creative and did a lot of things in player trades and moved up or down the board. In hindsight, it was the most mismanaged talent acquisition I can remember. 

 

[bucksavage1]

1 hour ago, big_palooka said:

The sad part of the Mack/Cooper trades is the team ended up with 5 first round picks over 2 years and they stayed in their spot and reached every time.

With those 5 picks, they could have gotten creative and did a lot of things in player trades and moved up or down the board. In hindsight, it was the most mismanaged talent acquisition I can remember. 

 

We drank our own koolaid by bringing in draft specialist Mike Mayock at GM. Caused us to reach and stay with every draft pick. This set the team back several years.