2021 Draft Talk

[Ozzy]

 

4 hours ago, KeithVikings28 said:

100% agreed.

Im saying I don’t think the impact from Pierce and Barr will be that great. Those resources could be better spent elsewhere.

Pierce would absolutely improve the run defense, that is what he does and in this defense he would have been very effective at it and key to the run defense overall.  No reason to think he will not be next year unless he all of a sudden got worse but if anything he will come back better and in better shape.  Barr has been kind of phased out of the NFL game with how things are going with spread offenses, but at the core he is easily one of the better run stopping linebackers in the league because he is huge and can take on and get off blocks for anyone, not many linebackers in the NFL that play in a 4/3 are his size at all, much less a 4-2-5, and for his size is decent in coverage but sure at times he underachieves.  

The guy made 4 Pro Bowls in a row at linebacker, sure did not last year but again that is more a reflection of how the NFL is changing not to mention how 3/4 OLBs take the spot of 4/3 OLBs all the time when it comes to the Pro bowl voting because they get more sacks.  I doubt it is a coincidence Barr and Hunter have missed the entire season basically and they are having historically bad defense played, especially once more injuries started to hit them.

 

Ultimately at this point it is better for the Vikings to lose than win because they get a higher pick and they were not going to make the playoffs anyway so no big deal.  The offense is greatly improving despite the awful pass protection, they put up points and once the D gets back in order they will be a good team again. 

[ArcticNorseman]

The Vikes roster really didn't hide anyone this year - except Uli Udoh, which I still don't get?  Everybody on D and have the local Napa parts clerks got a crack at playing in the NFL.  What have I seen?  Probably the same as everyone else, but is my idea of what the team needs to do the right way, nope.  It's just my thoughts on what seems rational to me.  

I totally agree with Moss-is-1's priorities and QB is one position that could be a next year addressing; however, if you want a credible back-up to Cousins, you generally need to go higher than the UDFA or 7th Rd market.  So, if one of the top QBs slips to Rds 2 or 3, I could see that being an option.  One thing I always love watching as we get to this time of year is how players perform in bowl games, the all-star practices (not so much the games), the combine and pro-days.  What will that look like this season?  Who knows, but one thing I do see is some guys are playing great ball in college this year, and they'll translate to successful players in the NFL.

Back to my preferences, I'd love to se the D-line get a true #1 first round, blue-chip-ish talent at DT.  The guys I'm most interested in watching are Jordan Davis (6' 6" 330), Marvin Wilson (6' 5" 305), and Christian Barmore (6'5" 315) for the 1st Rd selection.  Three other mammoths for later rounds (in case the Vikes go some other position with Rd 1's pick) include Tadarrelle Slaton (6' 5" 340), Tyler Shelvin (6' 3" 346) and Devonte Wyatt (6' 4" 321).  Ultimately, whoever posts the best overall numbers at the combine and pro-days will get the most consideration and one thing I like about the Vikings' staff is they usually develop guys who didn't post big production numbers in college . . . i.e. Did they do their job so others can make the intended play?

Of the current roster, I'd keep Pierce (to see what he brings), Watts, and Lynch.  Get 4 new guys to battle it out.

DE-wise, there seems to be a bunch of guys that fit the physical traits the coaches like, 6' 5" long-lean, fast.  Of the current roster, keep Odenigbo, Wonnum, Brailford, Yarborough, and Mata'afa.   So, I'm thinking another cheetah for the stable may be a 2022 draft choice.

OG play had been putrid to me, like most others have stated.  I just can't believe the O-line coach doesn't have the guts to try Udo or Collins at guard (but I suspect agent politics enters into this as well).  We all know Rashod Hill can play tackle and he's been good enough when he's in there.  What I don't understand is the OG spot.  Good lord, were the Vikes spoiled for decades with pro-bowl OGs throughout the 70s, late-80s, 90s and 00s?  I realize the guys on the roster are big, but this is where being a technician and brute combine to make the player.  Ya gotta cut Drew Samia and Brett Jones.  

Prospects, as Rd 1 OGs, appear limited.  Maybe Slater, Davis or Vera-Tucker will meet the measurables?  In the end, they need to pick the strongest guy they can find.   Seems like they always pick a guy who's 305 lbs that is advertised as nasty . . . all's well and good until ya meet Mr Donald, Suh or Hicks.  I want someone who'll negate the bully.

[Ozzy]

12 minutes ago, ArcticNorseman said:

The Vikes roster really didn't hide anyone this year - except Uli Udoh, which I still don't get?  Everybody on D and have the local Napa parts clerks got a crack at playing in the NFL.  What have I seen?  Probably the same as everyone else, but is my idea of what the team needs to do the right way, nope.  It's just my thoughts on what seems rational to me.  

I totally agree with Moss-is-1's priorities and QB is one position that could be a next year addressing; however, if you want a credible back-up to Cousins, you generally need to go higher than the UDFA or 7th Rd market.  So, if one of the top QBs slips to Rds 2 or 3, I could see that being an option.  One thing I always love watching as we get to this time of year is how players perform in bowl games, the all-star practices (not so much the games), the combine and pro-days.  What will that look like this season?  Who knows, but one thing I do see is some guys are playing great ball in college this year, and they'll translate to successful players in the NFL.

Back to my preferences, I'd love to se the D-line get a true #1 first round, blue-chip-ish talent at DT.  The guys I'm most interested in watching are Jordan Davis (6' 6" 330), Marvin Wilson (6' 5" 305), and Christian Barmore (6'5" 315) for the 1st Rd selection.  Three other mammoths for later rounds (in case the Vikes go some other position with Rd 1's pick) include Tadarrelle Slaton (6' 5" 340), Tyler Shelvin (6' 3" 346) and Devonte Wyatt (6' 4" 321).  Ultimately, whoever posts the best overall numbers at the combine and pro-days will get the most consideration and one thing I like about the Vikings' staff is they usually develop guys who didn't post big production numbers in college . . . i.e. Did they do their job so others can make the intended play?

Of the current roster, I'd keep Pierce (to see what he brings), Watts, and Lynch.  Get 4 new guys to battle it out.

DE-wise, there seems to be a bunch of guys that fit the physical traits the coaches like, 6' 5" long-lean, fast.  Of the current roster, keep Odenigbo, Wonnum, Brailford, Yarborough, and Mata'afa.   So, I'm thinking another cheetah for the stable may be a 2022 draft choice.

OG play had been putrid to me, like most others have stated.  I just can't believe the O-line coach doesn't have the guts to try Udo or Collins at guard (but I suspect agent politics enters into this as well).  We all know Rashod Hill can play tackle and he's been good enough when he's in there.  What I don't understand is the OG spot.  Good lord, were the Vikes spoiled for decades with pro-bowl OGs throughout the 70s, late-80s, 90s and 00s?  I realize the guys on the roster are big, but this is where being a technician and brute combine to make the player.  Ya gotta cut Drew Samia and Brett Jones.  

Prospects, as Rd 1 OGs, appear limited.  Maybe Slater, Davis or Vera-Tucker will meet the measurables?  In the end, they need to pick the strongest guy they can find.   Seems like they always pick a guy who's 305 lbs that is advertised as nasty . . . all's well and good until ya meet Mr Donald, Suh or Hicks.  I want someone who'll negate the bully.

Barmore I love but he is a big time project.  Twyman I would have high consideration for if he played this year, Marvin did play and was not amazing and Jordan Davis is just ok overall his entire college career and gets hurt a lot it seems.  I would take Barmore over Davis or Marvin Wilson in the Vikings situation, Pierce is already a run stopper so no need for Marvin and Barmore has some pass rush potential there, Wilson does but again did not play great this year I thought.  

I agree I wish Udoh played this year in some regard just for the hell of it, why not.  Agree with Collins at guard as well but not sure he is strong enough to pull it off.  Bradbury got absolutely bulled in that Saints game, it was sad so honestly center might be an option and move Bradbury possibly to guard, Myers is a hell of a center along with Landon Dickerson who they could get later than the 1st round which would help.

1st round OG prospects are not limited though, Wyatt Davis is absolutely a 1st round prospect and totally in play.  Slater could play guard and his tackle versatility is very interesting as well.  Vera-Tucker I would not take 1st round though.  Leatherwood is in play who has OG and OT potential.  But if Jackson Carman is there at OT cannot pass on him either and stick with Cleveland at guard and move on from Reiff or O'Neill.  Josh Myers though I like and I feel he is better than Davis at least in terms of strength, and he could play OG as well if asked but again I think Bradbury might be too weak at the point of attack and Myers could be played there and see if Bradbury can transition to guard maybe.  

Kirk Cousins needs to stop getting pressured right up the gut, it was just sad to have a guy pushed right into your back right through the center and it happened a lot yesterday.  

[PrplChilPill]

And, everyone on D will be a year older.....

If it was a rebuilding year, trading a 2nd for a guy on a one year deal was stupid. They should have been trading guys off that are old, not giving up picks. So I'm not sure the GM and coaches agree it was a rebuilding year, and if they didn't, that says something.....

We are never going to agree. The coaching isn't good enough, and the players that are important on D are not getting any younger. 

 

[SemperFeist]

The 49ers helping out the Vikings’ draft position

[Ozzy]

18 hours ago, PrplChilPill said:

And, everyone on D will be a year older.....

If it was a rebuilding year, trading a 2nd for a guy on a one year deal was stupid. They should have been trading guys off that are old, not giving up picks. So I'm not sure the GM and coaches agree it was a rebuilding year, and if they didn't, that says something.....

We are never going to agree. The coaching isn't good enough, and the players that are important on D are not getting any younger. 

 

Sure trading for Ngakoue was a little bit of a gamble but obviously they were not a huge fan of the guy for some reason after getting him, work ethic, inability to stop the run, overall fit whatever.  Sure was not great they got him but he was successful and at least they got a little bit for him trading him to the Ravens.

My guess is they got him to save the season once Hunter was out, and got rid of him once they realized there was not much of a season to save.  Oddly enough after they got rid of him they started to win, not recently but they sure went on a good run middle of the year after he left.  And I am glad we do not have to pay Ngakoue's contract based on the lack of money in general the team has to throw around anyway.

[Vikes_Bolts1228]

We need Denver to win to move up to 12th

[SemperFeist]

I believe 11th is the highest the Vikings can get and 15th is the lowest they can pick. 

[twslhs20]

Trade up to get a QB

[Ozzy]

4 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

I believe 11th is the highest the Vikings can get and 15th is the lowest they can pick. 

 

1.Jacksonville Jaguars:    Trevor Lawrence Clemson JR QB

2. New York Jets:  Zach Wilson BYU JR QB 

3. Miami Dolphins (Via Houston Texans)  Penei Sewell Oregon JR OT

4. Atlanta Falcons: Justin Fields Ohio State JR QB

5.  Cincinnati: Kyle Pitts Florida JR TE 

6.Philadelphia Eagles:   Devonta Smith Alabama SR WR  

7. Detroit Lions: Jaylen Waddle Alabama JR WR  

8. NY Giants: Ja'Marr Chase LSU JR WR  

9. Carolina Panthers:  Micah Parsons Penn State JR OLB 

10. Denver Broncos:   Shaun Wade Ohio State RS JR CB   

11. Dallas Cowboys:  Alex Leatherwood Alabama SR OG/OT 

12.  LA Chargers: Gregory Rousseau Miami FL RS SOPH DE  

13. Minnesota Vikings: Jackson Carman Clemson JR OT

 

It will be a hard call, because Trey Lance could easily be sitting right there.  Maybe the Panthers take him but outside of that not sure the Broncos would but who knows.  Micah Parsons oddly enough could slide and he is a supreme athlete.  

 

 

Even if the Jets get Sewell which really they should that would not change things for the Vikings much potentially.  Those three QBs will be gone and Lance could be around but could also go to the Panthers or Broncos or San Fran or New England but not sure they pick over the Vikings, guess depends on what happens.  

 

1.Jacksonville Jaguars:    Trevor Lawrence Clemson JR QB

2. New York Jets: Penei Sewell Oregon JR OT   

3. Miami Dolphins (Via Houston Texans)  Devonta Smith Alabama SR WR  

4. Atlanta Falcons:  Zach Wilson BYU JR QB 

5.  Cincinnati: Kyle Pitts Florida JR TE 

6.Philadelphia Eagles:  Jaylen Waddle Alabama JR WR   

7. Detroit Lions: Justin Fields Ohio State JR QB

8. NY Giants: Ja'Marr Chase LSU JR WR  

9. Carolina Panthers:  Micah Parsons Penn State JR OLB 

10. Denver Broncos:   Shaun Wade Ohio State RS JR CB   

11. Dallas Cowboys:  Alex Leatherwood Alabama SR OG/OT 

12.  LA Chargers: Gregory Rousseau Miami FL RS SOPH DE  

13. Minnesota Vikings: Jackson Carman Clemson JR OT

 

It is crazy having Zach Wilson that high but could easily happen with how poor Fields has looked in his last game, so he needs a good one against Clemson no question.  

[Ozzy]

4 hours ago, twslhs20 said:

Trade up to get a QB

Possible the numbers have changed but here are the top teams in the NFL in terms of least amount of sacks given up this year, and all are playoff teams most likely.

Steelers 13
Packers 19
Bucs 21
Colts 21
Titans 21
Browns 22
Rams 23
Chiefs 23

 

All of the offensive lines here have Pro bowlers on it either past, present or future.  All are very good OL groups.  The Vikings have what not had an offensive lineman in the Pro bowl since what 2012?  

 

Steelers have two Pro bowl offensive linemen, Colts have two, Packers have two, Saints have two.  The Saints are not on the list but have 27 sacks given up, but Hill was the QB part of the time so not sure that counts since he runs so much and is not experienced as a QB.  

 

Either way OL has to be address, not sure QB is the issue.  You give Kirk Cousins two offensive lineman in the Pro bowl and he would look like a different player.  Ask Baker Mayfield how that has helped this year with a greatly improved offensive line.

 

Wish I had the number for total QB hits by team given up in the NFL.  I know I looked and over four games Cousins was hit over 45 times in those four games around 10-14 each game it seemed.  They did only give up 36 sacks on the year but that is in the bottom 1/3 of the league.  

[SemperFeist]

17 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

I believe 11th is the highest the Vikings can get and 15th is the lowest they can pick. 

Scratch that. We still have a shot at a top 10 pick. 

We can pick between 9 and 15

[wcblack34]

13 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Possible the numbers have changed but here are the top teams in the NFL in terms of least amount of sacks given up this year, and all are playoff teams most likely.

Steelers 13
Packers 19
Bucs 21
Colts 21
Titans 21
Browns 22
Rams 23
Chiefs 23

 

All of the offensive lines here have Pro bowlers on it either past, present or future.  All are very good OL groups.  The Vikings have what not had an offensive lineman in the Pro bowl since what 2012?  

If we retain Reiff and draft a strong LG, we've solidified our line. O'Neill, Cleveland, Bradbury, __________, Reiff is more than adequate, as I think Bradbury has made (and should continue to make) strides, Cleveland has been very good and should only be better with a full offseason to prepare as the starter. A good LG will make Bradbury even better. 

In my opinion, DT and QBOTF are just too glaring to spend a near Top 10 pick on a Tackle. 

[wcblack34]

1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

Scratch that. We still have a shot at a top 10 pick. 

We can pick between 9 and 15

So what you're saying is that we'll be picking 15th. 

Because that's just our luck. 

[SemperFeist]

1 hour ago, wcblack34 said:

So what you're saying is that we'll be picking 15th. 

Because that's just our luck. 

I’ll put us at 14th. I don’t see New England losing to the Jets.