Dalvin Cook Holding Out

[MKnight82]

On 6/8/2020 at 6:08 PM, Forge said:

On the bright side....it almost has to go better than Melvin Gordon's

[THE DUKE]

14 hours ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

RBs have it bad and the NFL needs to figure out a way to get them paid appropriately, perhaps have very good, yet high, performance incentives in ALL rookie deals that do not count towards cap. Pro bowl, all-pros, top 10 in category x. Things like that. Every position would benefit a bit, but none more than RBs who sometimes peak before their 2nd deal. 

I've long been a proponent that the performance bonuses the NFL currently has built into their contracts should be greatly increased.  In my opinion it should be 25% of the cap or more and apply to all players.  Guy signs a 1 year prove it deal and performs like an all pro, he should get paid as such.  Guy on rookie deals carrying the team should get paid too, but it shouldn't be guaranteed because statistically, 50+% of all 1st rd picks are going to be at least disappointing if not an outright bust.

[soflbillsfan]

21 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

Same thing happened with Fournette and paying him would be a big mistake too. 

Well to be fair Dalvin's only issue is he has an injury history. Leonard has an injury issue along with an attitude issue. He has publicly called out the team, he has shown up late to meetings and practices, mentally checking out at times. He just does not care to be there where I believe Dalvin wants to be in Minnesota and not somewhere else. Fournette is going to have a hard time finding a team to pay him 3-4 mil a year let alone anything more then that. Hes going to have to go in on a team with a prove it deal be mentally and physically there and giving 110% in order to redeem himself. Anything less will just mean he wont last in the league that much longer the way he is acting

[HTTRDynasty]

Good read.

 

[JaguarCrazy2832]

1 hour ago, soflbillsfan said:

Well to be fair Dalvin's only issue is he has an injury history. Leonard has an injury issue along with an attitude issue. He has publicly called out the team, he has shown up late to meetings and practices, mentally checking out at times. He just does not care to be there where I believe Dalvin wants to be in Minnesota and not somewhere else. Fournette is going to have a hard time finding a team to pay him 3-4 mil a year let alone anything more then that. Hes going to have to go in on a team with a prove it deal be mentally and physically there and giving 110% in order to redeem himself. Anything less will just mean he wont last in the league that much longer the way he is acting

No doubt i was just pointing out the similarities in the fact they’ve played 3 seasons, had injury problems in 2 of them(also some in college iirc?) and after 1 year of healthy play both are in a tough spot to look for more money

[diamondbull424]

15 hours ago, Danand said:

With regard to the bolded part, I would add that I am in the corner of all the well playing rookies/depth players, and also that I see the game as the ultimate team sport, and therefor thinks quarterbacks accounts for too much money on the entire roster.

Its the same old discussion - how much is the CEO really worth? Granted QB's put their teams in position to win and they can elevate an entire team, but while we had/have Peyton Manning, Brady, Mahomes, Wilson who elevate their team, we also have Matt Ryan, Phillip Rivers, Matthew Stafford and the likes who can't elevate the entire team but are paid so substantially much more than their teammates.

If we put a ceiling on QB contracts though, we would just have 16 QB's all getting the same amount of dollars.

Interesting discussion, but I doubt we will see any major change on contract structuring

Absolutely true. But it also still becomes a great equalizer for franchises. It becomes far less detrimental to pay your QB if you know most of the playoff teams are likely to have a QB on that same max contract... unless it’s a rookie contract led squad... which would still be an advantageous time period obviously.

But yeah I’m sure it would eventually become some sort of value that’s inflated. The NBA started with only your premier superstar caliber players like Jordan, Kobe, Shaq, etc getting max deals. Now any player that makes an All Star team suddenly wants the max deal somewhere. So you’re definitely correct in that assessment.

Though I still find it preferable to each new QB deal having to “set the record”... these guys legit just can’t help themselves (outside of perhaps Brady). If we cap the QB off, everything should theoretically trickle down. Allow guys to make more stable money across the league as long as they contribute in a big way. I definitely think this issue is starting to reach critical mass. So I completely agree, QBs are the one position group where I’m not necessarily down with providing any additional benefits. They do pretty well from where I stand.

[Soko]

12 hours ago, SaveOurSonics said:

Performance incentives on rookie deals will certainly help the RB position from an early-career earnings perspective, but it's not going to move the needle as far as incentivizing teams to pay them more on their 2nd contract. These incentives would likely be in the $100,000-$1m range, and that's frankly not a huge dent relative to the money these guys are missing out on with their 2nd contract. Players at the position will continue to think they are worth more, hold out, and be met by a cold market. 

I mean, it’s a hypothetical proposition. Nothing saying it should be relegated to only $1M. And it’s purpose isn’t to incentivize fat second contracts, it’s to let players earn money while they’re playing well. If the incentives are up, that’ll be accomplished. 

The market is the market, forcing a team to pay players more money because “it’s not fair” would be crazy. Best to be done is give them more while they’re young. 

[JAF-N72EX]

The 2011 CBA screwed over the RB position. 

[soflbillsfan]

14 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

No doubt i was just pointing out the similarities in the fact they’ve played 3 seasons, had injury problems in 2 of them(also some in college iirc?) and after 1 year of healthy play both are in a tough spot to look for more money

Yea I understand, Cook looking for a new contract in his eyes makes sense to protect himself but really he needs to be 100% this year by playing and showing up in order to get a new deal that he is seeking. If he ends up like Melvin where they do not cave and he comes back it is going to make him look bad and then the issues that come with not being in game ready shape during the season come in to play and that could lead to injuries. 

[buno67]

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[swede700]

On 6/10/2020 at 12:18 PM, MKnight82 said:

Yes, because he's better than Gordon...and the Vikings' organization treats their players a hell of a lot better than the Spanos'.

[SaveOurSonics]

13 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

I mean, it’s a hypothetical proposition. Nothing saying it should be relegated to only $1M. And it’s purpose isn’t to incentivize fat second contracts, it’s to let players earn money while they’re playing well. If the incentives are up, that’ll be accomplished. 

The market is the market, forcing a team to pay players more money because “it’s not fair” would be crazy. Best to be done is give them more while they’re young. 

I'm operating under the assumption that this conversation was born from the question "how do we prevent RB holdouts?"

If it's simply to pay the players what they earn, sure. 

[showtime]

On 6/8/2020 at 6:24 PM, SaveOurSonics said:

Not sure where the McCaffrey narrative came from. I believe Schefter reported that Cook was aiming for a contract similar to David Johnson's (3y/39m). 

 

Either way, RB contracts are becoming a serious nuisance for teams. I imagine it will be further motivation for offenses to split carries and leverage a RBBC, just so these players don't have the leverage to make such demands. 

Teams should just start doing what the Niners have done - draft a receiver that can catch the ball and be a running back as well.  Anymore Deebo Samuel's out there?

[showtime]

21 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Good read.

 

That's true, but losing him would hurt the Vikings a lot.  They are a team with Superbowl dreams.  I get that not paying a RB is the wave and you can look at someone like Todd Gurley as to why they shouldn't be paid.  However, if you look at Gurley, the Rams aren't anywhere near the same team without him being elite like he was.  It's kind of double edge sword with great backs.  You don't want to pay them, but if you let them go the quality of your offense goes down a good amount.

[Soko]

31 minutes ago, SaveOurSonics said:

I'm operating under the assumption that this conversation was born from the question "how do we prevent RB holdouts?"

If it's simply to pay the players what they earn, sure. 

I guess the discussion came about randomly.

I don’t think there’s an effective way to end holding out without either forcing the teams to pay players what they want/production based (which no one would go for and would rock the current structure) or further remove any leverage that holding out grants the player (seems to already have taken a step in this direction with the new CBA).

Best anyone can ask for, IMO, is give some payouts while their value is still high.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Yin-Yang