Browns General Discussion

[MWil23]

10 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

Berry’s starting to chap my ***.

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The compensation to the Texans was on par with Wilson and Stafford, despite them being like 7 years older.

The contract was a lot for sure.

Obviously we paid Watson well more, or at least guaranteed much more than any other team so by definition we "overpaid" what everyone else thought his value was.

As far as draft picks, the Texans weren't taking less than they could get elsewhere so we at least paid top dollar.

Combined we overpaid. Could still work out, just need a championship.

Then again, some players don't play as well after getting paid. Watson may be one of those.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Obviously we paid Watson well more, or at least guaranteed much more than any other team so by definition we "overpaid" what everyone else thought his value was.

As far as draft picks, the Texans weren't taking less than they could get elsewhere so we at least paid top dollar.

Using this logic literally every trade or free agent signing or draft pick is an overpay. Unless of course the FA gave us some sort of discount I suppose..

And we don’t know if we actually offered the best compensation package to the Texans.  Teams submitted offers and if the Texans felt the offer was acceptable they approved it and let the team negotiate with Watson who chose the team he wanted.  There were 4-5 teams that negotiated with him.

8 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Combined we overpaid.

Draft compensation was on par with the Stafford and Wilson deals iirc. 
 

Watson’s AAV is 4th in the league and only 6 million a year more than the guy who’s 9th.  
 

You can keep saying it was an overpay, but the numbers don’t really support it.

8 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Could still work out, just need a championship.

If championship or bust is the only barometer for success, I suppose.

8 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Then again, some players don't play as well after getting paid. Watson may be one of those.

Watson had already been paid.  He signed a 175 million dollar contract and then went on to lead the league in passing yards that season. At the time it was the second largest deal in league history.

[JDD]

14 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Obviously we paid Watson well more, or at least guaranteed much more than any other team so by definition we "overpaid" what everyone else thought his value was.

As far as draft picks, the Texans weren't taking less than they could get elsewhere so we at least paid top dollar.

Combined we overpaid. Could still work out, just need a championship.

Then again, some players don't play as well after getting paid. Watson may be one of those.

He already got paid though. He got a huge contract and played good for the Texans. So I don’t think that is as much of the issue as the cap hit

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, JDD said:

He already got paid though. He got a huge contract and played good for the Texans. So I don’t think that is as much of the issue as the cap hit

The cap hit itself isn’t a concern tbh.

Hes 4th in AAV and when guys like Burrow and Herbert and perhaps Lamar and Trevor all sign their next deals he’ll just get pushed further down the list.

The guarantees were substantial, but that’s only relevant if we want to cut/trade him.

[Thomas5737]

Technically Watson played 2020 (4-12) under his rookie deal. He already signed an extension but who knows if he ever intended to play under that extension since he sat out the 1st year of his new contract and demanded a new deal before he ever earned a penny of his previous deal.

I'm not saying he won't play well as a rich man, it's just a possibility.

He didn't set the world on fire last year statistically or to those who watched him while other superstar QBs have been out a year with an injury where they couldn't throw and played well. Could just be a coincidence. This year will certainly tell the tale if he is a difference maker or just a good QB which would qualify as us as having overspent.

[DawgX]

Like someone else said, people hate the fully guaranteed aspect of the trade. But even if we only guaranteed 50-75% of the contract, we'd still be totally screwed if Watson doesn't work out. Either way, we'd have to totally rebuild our roster at that point.

And Thomas, I love you, but you've already made it painfully obvious you hope Watson and the Browns fail just because you're a hardcore Baker fanboy.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Technically Watson played 2020 (4-12) under his rookie deal. He already signed an extension but who knows if he ever intended to play under that extension since he sat out the 1st year of his new contract and demanded a new deal before he ever earned a penny of his previous deal.

I'm not saying he won't play well as a rich man, it's just a possibility.

When “well, he may not play well once he starts cashing them checks” is the most valid component of your argument it might be time to rethink your stance.

17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

He didn't set the world on fire last year statistically or to those who watched him while other superstar QBs have been out a year with an injury where they couldn't throw and played well. Could just be a coincidence.
 

What’s your real concern?  Are you concerned he wasn’t good enough in Houston?  That it was all smoke and mirrors?  Or that he forgot how to play football in 18 months?
 

Because I think those are the only options left other than a combo of being rusty, playing in a new offense, with a new set of teammates, etc.

17 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

This year will certainly tell the tale if he is a difference maker or just a good QB which would qualify as us as having overspent.

Eh, no, not really.  This year will tell us if he and Stefanski are gonna be a good fit and if Stefanski can get elite production out of him.  If he doesn’t I’m sure we’ll be finding a new coach who thinks they can and we’ll see how that goes.  
 

This deal isn’t gonna be determined with complete certainly this season at all.  Unless we win a ring I suppose, that could seal the deal.

[Thomas5737]

2 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Using this logic literally every trade or free agent signing or draft pick is an overpay. Unless of course the FA gave us some sort of discount I suppose..

Not really. There could be a free agent (or potential trade) where desired teams give fairly equal contract offers and the player decides to go somewhere because of weather, the chance to win, close to home, state taxes, school systems etc..

It however is very rare for a player to say he has no interest in signing somewhere (or refused a trade to that team) and then receive an offer that made him change his mind solely because of money which would insinuate a vast difference in salary from the teams he was interested in playing for.

[Thomas5737]

1 hour ago, DawgX said:

And Thomas, I love you, but you've already made it painfully obvious you hope Watson and the Browns fail just because you're a hardcore Baker fanboy.

FYI, the feeling isn't mutual. When the **** have I last said anything about Mayfield and why would I still care?

I'm sick of the bull****.

Enjoy your forum.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Not really. There could be a free agent (or potential trade) where desired teams give fairly equal contract offers and the player decides to go somewhere because of weather, the chance to win, close to home, state taxes, school systems etc..

for a FA, sure, I suppose.  Although state taxes would technically allow them to make more money so it’s not really a similar deal, but whatever.  
 

Maybe Watson did that with us though?  Maybe he liked this roster and thought he could win?  Was breathless after seeing the stunning shores of Lake Erie?  If we’re gonna assume stuff, we can assume this too, right?

18 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

It however is very rare for a player to say he has no interest in signing somewhere (or refused a trade to that team) and then receive an offer that made him change his mind solely because of money which would insinuate a vast difference in salary from the teams he was interested in playing for.

Salary or guaranteed money?  They’re not the same thing.  Salary is, as was stated already, in line with other QB’s who received deals recently.  Guaranteed money was not, which, again, is only relevant if we try to move on from him and soon.

15 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

FYI, the feeling isn't mutual. When the **** have I last said anything about Mayfield and why would I still care?

I'm sick of the bull****.

Enjoy your forum.

Good grief what an absurd overreaction lol

[Kiwibrown]

What a masterclass from Berry this season

 

Likely helped get Jim Schwartz in the building. 

Gets Dalvin Tomlinson 

Gets Elijah Moore

 

Elijah Moore is like Cooper in that Berry and his team really understand the market for wrs.

We Get a talent wr for vet min + 50% as opposed to a lesser talented wr in Hardman for 6.5 million. 

We Get a DE in Obo who is on the up..

Brings guys in to compete with our dts.

[brownie man]

54 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

What a masterclass from Berry this season

 

Likely helped get Jim Schwartz in the building. 

Gets Dalvin Tomlinson 

Gets Elijah Moore

 

Elijah Moore is like Cooper in that Berry and his team really understand the market for wrs.

We Get a talent wr for vet min + 50% as opposed to a lesser talented wr in Hardman for 6.5 million. 

We Get a DE in Obo who is on the up..

Brings guys in to compete with our dts.

When you have a franchise quarterback you can build a team without having to compromise. They believe Watsons the guy so they can build and plan for 10 years out. 
 

that’s how he’s able to set up contracts that work. You can finally build the team around a player which is how the present day NFL works. 
 

It’s so crazy we got Elijah this is almost exactly how I felt getting Amari. Just a perfect fit for what we need. I think he’s gonna be a fan favorite. Stefanski schemed stuff up well for Jarvis. I see Elijah being used in a similar way. 

[dawgdish]

6 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

What a masterclass from Berry this season

 

Likely helped get Jim Schwartz in the building. 

Gets Dalvin Tomlinson 

Gets Elijah Moore

 

Elijah Moore is like Cooper in that Berry and his team really understand the market for wrs.

We Get a talent wr for vet min + 50% as opposed to a lesser talented wr in Hardman for 6.5 million. 

We Get a DE in Obo who is on the up..

Brings guys in to compete with our dts.

Not to mention locking in Pocic and bringing Walker back. All of our holes are filled by at least competent dudes, some still with upside potential.

Truly set us up for the draft and being able to go BPA the whole way. I think we'll get another promising piece or two for DL and secondary there (which is good, since secondary is about the only thing he can reliably draft).

[DawgX]

9 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

FYI, the feeling isn't mutual. When the **** have I last said anything about Mayfield and why would I still care?

I'm sick of the bull****.

Enjoy your forum.