Does Matt Ryan win a Super Bowl before the end of his career?

[scar988]

53 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Calvin Murphy is the only one who can keep up with Cro...

What about Travis Henry?

 

[ET80]

47 minutes ago, scar988 said:

What about Travis Henry?

 

Shawn Kemp, too.

[VanS]

10 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Ben and likely Eli are absolutely locks.  They arent on the level of Brady, Rodgers and Brees, but their career accomplishments, both individual and team, will get them in eventually. 

Ben is most likely in.  Eli I don't think so.  His career minus those two superbowls was just so mediocre I could see him not getting in.  But then again he has the last name Manning so that might give him a boost. 

[Danger]

1 hour ago, VanS said:

Ben is most likely in.  Eli I don't think so.  His career minus those two superbowls was just so mediocre I could see him not getting in.  But then again he has the last name Manning so that might give him a boost. 

And he also played in New York which gives him a boost.

[TakeTheBallDeep]

2 hours ago, Danger said:

And he also played in New York which gives him a boost.

I think Eli gets in (Not saying he should or shouldn't)

2 Super Bowl wins over Tom Brady and the Pats

Last name Manning

Played in NY

Always (as far as i know) talked to the media after games no matter if he played bad or not, a lot of them will remember that and push for him to get in, I think the media really respects him

[ET80]

15 minutes ago, TakeTheBallDeep said:

I think Eli gets in (Not saying he should or shouldn't)

2 Super Bowl wins over Tom Brady and the Pats

Last name Manning

Played in NY

He's a former #1 pick who didn't bust, has two rings and perhaps the most memorable play of the decade against a team trying to go undefeated. 

He's getting in with little debate. His stats don't warrent it, but his resume has some impressive moments that'll make it a short debate.

[Hunter2_1]

Rivers' wife is the MVP then. Jeez.

[notthatbluestuff]

On 7/15/2020 at 7:39 AM, VanS said:

Who cares?

Matt Ryan is not a significant enough player to where this topic is relevant.  I'd rather discuss if Lamar Jackson or Deshaun Watson will win a Super Bowl in the future or if Russell Wilson and Aaron Rodgers can win a second.  

Go discuss that, then. 

[40Year Pack Fan]

On 7/21/2020 at 8:51 PM, ET80 said:

He's a former #1 pick who didn't bust, has two rings and perhaps the most memorable play of the decade against a team trying to go undefeated. 

He's getting in with little debate. His stats don't warrent it, but his resume has some impressive moments that'll make it a short debate.

Many props to Tyree for holding onto the ball....

[lancerman]

On 7/21/2020 at 8:36 PM, TakeTheBallDeep said:

I think Eli gets in (Not saying he should or shouldn't)

2 Super Bowl wins over Tom Brady and the Pats

Last name Manning

Played in NY

Always (as far as i know) talked to the media after games no matter if he played bad or not, a lot of them will remember that and push for him to get in, I think the media really respects him

HOF voters have been polled. He’s going to have a difficult time getting in. He already doesn’t have the votes with the current batch of voters. 
 

Anyways the fact that 99% of the time Eli gets brought up the fact that he played in a specific city, or has a specific last name, or played against a specific team in SB’s all of which have nothing to do with his abilities and are based off the accomplishments of external entities (Peyton is why people care about the last name, Brady and Belichick’s legacy being used to boost those SB’s, and NY being an economic powerhouse) just all kinda shows how weak his candidacy is 

[lancerman]

On 7/21/2020 at 8:51 PM, ET80 said:

He's a former #1 pick who didn't bust, has two rings and perhaps the most memorable play of the decade against a team trying to go undefeated. 

He's getting in with little debate. His stats don't warrent it, but his resume has some impressive moments that'll make it a short debate.

There’s already enough HOF voters who outright said they wouldn’t vote for him to keep him out. Also the person who has to argue his case has said it’s going to be very difficult. So when you say there is “little debate” he’s getting in that’s objectively not true. 
 

Also plenty of number 1 picks who didn’t bust won’t make the HOF. Ryan is the subject of this thread and he won’t get in. Cam probably won’t get in. Luck won’t get in. Bledsoe didn’t get in. So that’s not a metric. 
 

Unless you think Tyree is going to get in, the quality of one play isn’t going to get you in. In fact if that matters... Malcolm Butler has the greatest defensive play in SB history that literally prevented one team from going back to back and relaunched a dynasty. He also won a second SB, appeared in a third and made an AFCCG last year. That’s far more success than Eli ever had post season. He also has an All Pro on his resume which is something Eli never accomplished, 

[ET80]

32 minutes ago, lancerman said:

There’s already enough HOF voters who outright said they wouldn’t vote for him to keep him out.

Likewise, I've heard some HoF voters who will vote him in, no question. Depending on who you listen to, it goes to either side of the spectrum - nobody really has a middling opinion on this, it's black and white, yes or no.

32 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Also the person who has to argue his case has said it’s going to be very difficult.

Have you ever argued with an actual member of sports media? You're trying to change the mind of someone who believes they know everything about sports, that's never an easy argument. 

32 minutes ago, lancerman said:

So when you say there is “little debate” he’s getting in that’s objectively not true. 

See my first point. For every person who says he's not in, there's a person who says he's in. 

One thing you're not referencing here - a lot of this voting process is political in nature. John McClain was presenting Robert Brazille last session; He got a lot of evidence to get him in, including a video testimonial from Lawrence Taylor to argue his case. This being said, McClain basically stated "Well, I'm now on the hook to vote for some guys I wouldn't normally vote for..."

Whoever has to argue for Eli either has to lay down a bunch of markers... or call in a bunch of outstanding markers. But that's not really mentioned.

37 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Ryan is the subject of this thread and he won’t get in.

Hypothetical - what if the Falcons find a Terrell Davis like RB who carries the load, and Ryan wins back to back SBs ala John Elway? Does that change the narrative?

38 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Cam probably won’t get in.

Take out Ryan in the above. Does that change it?

39 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Luck won’t get in.

Due to injury/early retirement. On field was hit or miss, but his exclusion is due to his retirement.

40 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Bledsoe didn’t get in.

Bledsoe wasn't really good, though. He was average. Better than Rick Mirer, but that's not saying anything. He's Vinny Testaverde at best.

41 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Unless you think Tyree is going to get in, the quality of one play isn’t going to get you in.

Lynn Swann is in based on a few highlight reel catches in Super Bowls, so quality of two plays. 

So... Eli to Tyree, Eli to Manningham. There you go. 

[lancerman]

13 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Likewise, I've heard some HoF voters who will vote him in, no question. Depending on who you listen to, it goes to either side of the spectrum - nobody really has a middling opinion on this, it's black and white, yes or no.

Have you ever argued with an actual member of sports media? You're trying to change the mind of someone who believes they know everything about sports, that's never an easy argument. 

See my first point. For every person who says he's not in, there's a person who says he's in. 

One thing you're not referencing here - a lot of this voting process is political in nature. John McClain was presenting Robert Brazille last session; He got a lot of evidence to get him in, including a video testimonial from Lawrence Taylor to argue his case. This being said, McClain basically stated "Well, I'm now on the hook to vote for some guys I wouldn't normally vote for..."

Whoever has to argue for Eli either has to lay down a bunch of markers... or call in a bunch of outstanding markers. But that's not really mentioned.

Hypothetical - what if the Falcons find a Terrell Davis like RB who carries the load, and Ryan wins back to back SBs ala John Elway? Does that change the narrative?

Take out Ryan in the above. Does that change it?

Due to injury/early retirement. On field was hit or miss, but his exclusion is due to his retirement.

Bledsoe wasn't really good, though. He was average. Better than Rick Mirer, but that's not saying anything. He's Vinny Testaverde at best.

Lynn Swann is in based on a few highlight reel catches in Super Bowls, so quality of two plays. 

So... Eli to Tyree, Eli to Manningham. There you go. 

You’re not listening. There’s already enough saying no to him, with the limited size they asked, that even if everyone on the fence and all the unasked people said yes, he still wouldn’t get in with current voters. It doesn’t matter “who you ask” when the amount did ask already has enough no votes to keep him out. So you can’t credibly claim that there isn’t a big debate on him and he’s guaranteed a spot. 
 

The difference is that many HOF’ers aren’t going to have as much resistance. The people who present Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Peyton’s cases aren’t going to have much difficulty. Most HOF’ers won’t have the debate and resistance Eli will. 
 

The difference between Elway and all the people you are mentioning is that before TD and before the SB’s Elway was an MVP, multi time All Pro, multi time AFC OPOY, 9 time Pro bowler, who dragged his team to 3 SB’s they had no business being in. Elway would have gotten in without rings. He had a much better resume even without the rings. 
 

Rings aside, Cam and Ryan have much better resumes than Eli. They need rings to get in. But they are actually much more consistent players that don’t have Eli’s low floor and have much higher ceilings. You could not describe them as busts or anything but successes. 
 

Bledsoe is basically Eli without rings. Considered a franchise QB but lower tier one compared to the best of his era. Finished top 10 in yards and TD’s but like Eli it’s more of a volume thing, his efficiency stats are lower but that’s more of an error thing. Same amount of Pro Bowls. Unlike Eli he actually led the league in yards once and completions twice.The biggest difference between Eli and Bledsoe is honestly that Bill didn’t let him start against the Rams and they his defense couldn’t keep the Packers in check the way Eli’s kept the Pats club check. That’s basically the difference. Bledsoe was not considered a bust by any stretch. He got the largest QB contact ever in his day. 
 

Lynn Swann is in because he was part of the first SB era dynasty, balled out in a SB to get MVP as a receiver and was a 3 time All Pro at the peak of the Steelers dynasty. And quite frankly that was not a great WR era so he had little resistance. Largent just started at the tail end of it, Rice wouldn’t start for a few years later, Alworth had been done for quite awhile. Warfield and Biletkinoff were the only big name stud receivers  of that period. So he benefitted from a very weak era. Meanwhile Eli player in the same era as Brady, Peyton, Brees, Rodgers, Farve, Warner, Ben, Rivers, Ryan, Newton, Wilson.  All players who I think most people would have no problem saying were better actual players during their careers than Eli, rings aside. That’s 11 guys. Even Luck was considered better from the time he debuted until he retired. 
 

That’s why Eli will always be a debate. You’re basically saying two rings gets a Drew Bledsoe caliber guy who has never had really any individual accolades is going to get in against better players who won’t..

 

[raidersedge]

He's definitely got at least another 3 years of being a very good player but the Falcons have made some questionable decisions. The hiring of Dirk Koetter and they haven't been able to fix the O-line. Big issues.

[scar988]

3 hours ago, raidersedge said:

He's definitely got at least another 3 years of being a very good player but the Falcons have made some questionable decisions. The hiring of Dirk Koetter and they haven't been able to fix the O-line. Big issues.

The O-line might finally be better. Lindstrom and McGary being healthy this year would help a lot. Mack and MAtthews staying healthy would be good too. If Hennessy comes in and plays average all year, that'd be perfect for them becuase Matthews and Mack are Pro Bowl talents and Lindstrom will probably be there one day too. McGary is a solid RT when he puts it together, but he looked terrible as a freshman in college before his sophomore year getting a nice boost in his play. I think the OL is solid enough now. But Koetter is terrible. He's the Aquaman of the Falcons OC's under Ryan's history.