FinSting Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 Shanahan's DE zone rushing scheme, any DE can succeed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsutus Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 7 hours ago, DannyB said: No way. A top-end ace pitcher is more important than an elite edge rusher. Yes he's only pitching every five games in the regular season, but when he does he has such a huge amount of control over the outcome of the game, it makes up for it. Then in the postseason when they can pitch twice in a series? And if you line it up right he can neutralize the other team's ace? It's definitely the pitcher over the DE. Besides, give me elite pressure from the middle any day. I was saying they are not as important as qbs and goalies, not de's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 On 7/15/2020 at 10:54 AM, cconocool said: I was thinking this for a few years. On the Vikings defensive line, production along the defensive end position hasn't had a huge dip depending on who's playing. Better players do produce better stats, but it isn't a huge disparity against someone who is a back-up, paid less a fraction of what an elite player makes. No. Defensive ends and other edge rushing players are the most valuable players on defense. The Vikings just have an insane eye for talent and a great coaching staff. Atlanta fans would love to have Mike Zimmer here running the defense because of his pass rush production he can create. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 (edited) No position outside of QB is inherently more important than the other. You can have a great running game without a great running back, just like you can have a great pass rush without a great pass rusher. The main reason why a position like left tackle is more "valuable" is because finding a quality starter is more difficult, that I will agree with, but it doesn't make it more important in the context of winning football games. Same with defensive end. One defensive end isn't going to increase your chances of winning any more than one running back. Edited July 17, 2020 by iknowcool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plat2 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 15/07/2020 at 11:40 AM, BleedTheClock said: Ummmm no? Defensive end is the 2nd most important position in professional SPORTS. Lol what? Get out of the ESPN bubble once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plat2 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 16/07/2020 at 1:40 AM, Vorsutus said: Pitcher doesn't work they only play some games. Unless you have a guy who can do a full series. You're talking about the position though and not the player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 12:27 PM, scar988 said: No. Defensive ends and other edge rushing players are the most valuable players on defense. The Vikings just have an insane eye for talent and a great coaching staff. Atlanta fans would love to have Mike Zimmer here running the defense because of his pass rush production he can create. Mike Zimmer could probably start at DE for you guys too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 8:03 AM, FinSting said: Shanahan's DE zone rushing scheme, any DE can succeed. Solomon Thomas: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EaglesPeteC Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 DE’s are the DE’s of defense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 On 7/16/2020 at 3:04 AM, Vorsutus said: That was my point. Outside off some crazy crap even the best pitchers do not play every game. Just saying that makes them less important than a qb or goalie Yeah but your best pass rushers nowadays are generally playing a relaxed amount of snaps in comparison to yesteryears. We’re seeing them play anywhere between 50-85% of the snaps. This at a position that is far less impactful on game flow than a pitcher (a position that is directly involved in every point of the game when he’s on the mound) and thus a pitcher is clearly more important than a pass rusher. On 7/15/2020 at 10:50 PM, BleedTheClock said: what else would you have picked? Maybe point guard? The QB is clearly the most important. The guy whose job it is to kill the QB is therefore the 2nd most important. Well your statement was that the DE position is the 2nd most important in professional sports. So we’re talking all professional sports, which is why I said I would love that argument because I only mainly follow American sports and just off the top of my mind I would’ve placed (in no particular order): hockey goalie and pitcher above for sure. I think a great argument could be made for the fact that as football has 22 players on the field, the DE position, regardless of its value in its respective game, is of (on average) lower value when compared to positions in hockey and basketball where only 12 and 10 players are on the ice/court at a time respectively. The best pass rushers in the league (which could come from DE or OLB, thus making it a sort of position less concept) are no where near as valuable as the best superstars in the NBA... which could come from any of the 5 positions. The All Star (or #2 stud player... that again could come from any of the other 4 starters) is going to be more important than a stud pass rusher. Heck with regard to top contenders in both sports, I would even place the #3 player above a stud pass rusher in importance in most cases. This is your Chris Bosh (MIA), Klay Thompson/Draymond Green (GSW), Kevin Love (CLE), Manu Ginobli (SAS), Ray Allen (BOS), Andrew Bynum (LAL), etc. These players likely play 75% of the minutes, play on both sides of the ball, and there is plenty of evidence to suggest they directly correlate to teams winning/not winning a championship. Conversely we’ve seen year in and year out where coaches for teams like NE and BAL can scheme pressure by utilizing a dominant secondary and subpar/average components upfront. Then add in the concept that the NFL is known for enduring the losses of starting players at all sorts of positions and still being able to find a way to win it all. So when we’re talking about the importance of a position across all professional sports, it would be difficult to argue DE above any of the starting 5 positions in basketball, let alone some of the other sports that I didn’t feel like launching a solid defense for. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorsutus Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 @diamondbull424 @Plat2 Like I said before my comment was comparing pitchers to goalies and qbs. I understand the confusion with the thread title. I am not saying a de is more important than a pitcher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diamondbull424 Posted July 18, 2020 Share Posted July 18, 2020 5 hours ago, Vorsutus said: @diamondbull424 @Plat2 Like I said before my comment was comparing pitchers to goalies and qbs. I understand the confusion with the thread title. I am not saying a de is more important than a pitcher. That makes sense, I wrote the vast majority of the write up yesterday, got hyper busy and forgot to post it... and then just posted it today after I forgot I hadn’t gotten around to it. So I apologize for not having checked back for your explanation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitehops Posted July 19, 2020 Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/15/2020 at 10:50 PM, BleedTheClock said: what else would you have picked? Maybe point guard? The QB is clearly the most important. The guy whose job it is to kill the QB is therefore the 2nd most important. the traditional 5 positions don't really exist in basketball anymore, but the traditional point guard is now something along the lines of "lead ball handler". pretty much every team's leading scorer is the lead ball handler and that position could very easily be argued to be more important than QB. it's one of the reasons the NBA has the least parity of the major US sports. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scar988 Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 On 7/18/2020 at 12:06 AM, BleedTheClock said: Mike Zimmer could probably start at DE for you guys too. I mean, maybe not this year with Fowler and Takk. They're pretty solid and I think the interior pressure gets a boost with Davidson. But still, it's going to be a rough year all around for everyone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m haynes Posted July 20, 2020 Share Posted July 20, 2020 On 7/15/2020 at 1:16 PM, jebrick said: The draft shows what is valued. QBs ( duh), being able to play on an island( WR, CB) and people who get the QB ( pass rush). IMHO, a pass rushing 3 tech is more valuable than a DE. They are harder to find and it is a much shorter path to the QB. A 9-tech just needs explosiveness and some technique . They are valuable but more easily replaced. The QB is the #1 position. The next in line is LT. Four LTs in the 1st, 15 picks. This is how I rate the positions. QB LT CB (LD) DE DT S Take your pick on the others however WR and RBs are last in that order. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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