Is Alvin Kamara the best Running Back in the NFL? (Part 2)

[Soko]

1 hour ago, GamedayGuru said:

Guys like riddick and white aren’t the same caliber runner as Kamara is, so your point is invalid. 

...that’s the point. They’re unequivocally not on the level of the other running backs I listed.

But using silly statements like “numbers are numbers” and “I don’t care if the yards come from rushing or receiving” will yield you some results that place Theo Riddick and James White over Derrick Henry and Dalvin Cook. From a yards per touch standpoint, it certainly does matter whether they come rushing or through the air. Or should we include return yards as well? 

[GamedayGuru]

4 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

...that’s the point. They’re unequivocally not on the level of the other running backs I listed.

But using silly statements like “numbers are numbers” and “I don’t care if the yards come from rushing or receiving” will yield you some results that place Theo Riddick and James White over Derrick Henry and Dalvin Cook. From a yards per touch standpoint, it certainly does matter whether they come rushing or through the air. Or should we include return yards as well? 

Yes

[jrry32]

6 hours ago, Tk3 said:

I stand by my opinion that Henry is the best traditional runningback, and Kamara is the best receiving back, and that its okay to rank them both as if they are different positions

If one guy rushes 350-400 times and barely catches the ball, its a different class of player than one who rushes 200+ times and is targeted 100+ times

It's weird that in 2020 we still classify them both as running backs.. One is a running back and one is like.. a flex player or something and we need to be more comfortable calling them different things

Is he, though? Not counting the specialists, is he a better receiver than Christian McCaffrey? IMO, no.

[Soko]

1 hour ago, GamedayGuru said:

Yes

[Raves]

11 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

6 rushing TDs in one game is more of a team and situational accomplishment, than it is an individual record.

I'm going to leave now.

I mean isn't everything a team/situational accomplishment, even Henry's almost 1700 yards on the ground?  I mean it's not like he's the one calling plays and providing the blocks for him to constantly get to the second level.

[sammymvpknight]

Henry is having one of the best rushing seasons ever...and Kamara is going to wax him in fantasy. 

[QBIso]

Nope. 

[tyler735]

2 hours ago, Raves said:

I mean isn't everything a team/situational accomplishment, even Henry's almost 1700 yards on the ground?  I mean it's not like he's the one calling plays and providing the blocks for him to constantly get to the second level.

Exactly,  it would be pretty much no different to say when Henry runs for 200+ yards in a game to say it's a team/situational accomplishment by this logic. Both are very impressive individual accomplishments (granted Kamara's accomplishment hasn't been done in 90+ years).

[Chiefer]

Sean Payton totally cheated Kamara out of a NFL Record. Why do coaches do that? Reminds me of Adrian Peterson when he almost beat the rushing record 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Chiefer

[tyler735]

5 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Sean Payton totally cheated Kamara out of a NFL Record. Why do coaches do that? Reminds me of Adrian Peterson when he almost beat the rushing record 

Agreed, hated that play call to give it to Hill for a couple reasons. Obviously, it was 3rd down at the 1 yard line, so why not give Kamara a chance for the record there. We had a couple chances to put it in.

Also, why give it to Hill there? Hill has been very fumble prone, and it seems like they always come in high pressure situations (late in games, 4th down, etc.), so why put the ball in his hands instead of Kamara who the Vikings had no answer for yesterday. Kamara in general has been excellent in these short yardage situations throughout his career, he always seems to find a little crease to get positive yardage on these plays. Just a baffling decision by Payton there

[Soko]

43 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Exactly,  it would be pretty much no different to say when Henry runs for 200+ yards in a game to say it's a team/situational accomplishment by this logic. Both are very impressive individual accomplishments (granted Kamara's accomplishment hasn't been done in 90+ years).

Not really. Touchdowns are a volatile stat for a running back (and others, but especially RBs), game-to-game. Offenses getting in the 10, and then giving it to the back that many times, is probably going to influence that as much as any skill is. If this were a weekly thing, or even a more common occurrence (like Henry’s monster rushing games), it’d be a different story. 

That’s not diminishing Kamara’s monster game. Nor is it implying that Derrick Henry, or any other running back, do what they do completely independent of their coach/OC/QB/OL. But touchdowns are and have always extremely been situational. Yeah, rushing yards can be situational too, but a lot less than multiple carries inside the 10 yard line.

[tyler735]

22 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Not really. Touchdowns are a volatile stat for a running back (and others, but especially RBs), game-to-game. Offenses getting in the 10, and then giving it to the back that many times, is probably going to influence that as much as any skill is. If this were a weekly thing, or even a more common occurrence (like Henry’s monster rushing games), it’d be a different story. 

That’s not diminishing Kamara’s monster game. Nor is it implying that Derrick Henry, or any other running back, do what they do completely independent of their coach/OC/QB/OL. But touchdowns are and have always extremely been situational. Yeah, rushing yards can be situational too, but a lot less than multiple carries inside the 10 yard line.

Eh, the initial comment just came off as a bit bitter to diminish Kamara's accomplishment. Just pointing out that if a RB has a monster game on the ground, you could say the OL opened holes to get said player into the second level all game. Any major accomplishment like this is obviously a team effort, but at the end of the day, it's undoubtedly a fantastic display by the individual.

Edited December 26, 2020 by tyler735

[sammymvpknight]

Kamara could have easily had 8 TDs if 1) Taysom Hill didn’t vulture a 2 yard TD, and 2) Brees did significantly under throw a ball. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by sammymvpknight

[Forge]

6 hours ago, Raves said:

I mean isn't everything a team/situational accomplishment, even Henry's almost 1700 yards on the ground?  I mean it's not like he's the one calling plays and providing the blocks for him to constantly get to the second level.

I think saying that they are team / situational is probably not the right way to look at it, but I know what he means. They are fairly random and not always indicative of great players. Nick Foles shares the record for most touchdown passes in a game. Flipper Anderson still holds the record for most receiving yards in a game. Adrian Clayborn missed the record, but is one of only 4 players to ever get 6 sacks in a game (Derrick Thomas did it twice, so it's happened 5 times total). 

I feel absolutely no different about Kamara as a player today than I did yesterday before the game just because of this performance. It's a cool feather in the hat kind of thing, but it's a random one off type thing as well. 

[Raves]

1 hour ago, Forge said:

I think saying that they are team / situational is probably not the right way to look at it, but I know what he means. They are fairly random and not always indicative of great players. Nick Foles shares the record for most touchdown passes in a game. Flipper Anderson still holds the record for most receiving yards in a game. Adrian Clayborn missed the record, but is one of only 4 players to ever get 6 sacks in a game (Derrick Thomas did it twice, so it's happened 5 times total). 

I feel absolutely no different about Kamara as a player today than I did yesterday before the game just because of this performance. It's a cool feather in the hat kind of thing, but it's a random one off type thing as well. 

I understand and agree with that as well, but if a consistently great player, which Kamara is, performs at this level then it's something you look at as further evidence of how good someone is not just a fluke, like what happened with Foles.  Just like if Derrick Henry were to break the rushing record one season it would just further cement his greatness and not be viewed as a fluke.