The search for a new Defensive Coordinator

[Dessie]

4 hours ago, big_palooka said:

Wade Phillips is a catchy name and has had a lot of success in his career. But thinking he can come in with the current slate of talent and the defense would transform is misguided. There is some question about the fit of some these players. Wade has also had some elite pass rushers coming into the job that made his life easier. He wouldn't have that here.

I also question a 3-4 defense which is his preferred alignment. A 4-3 IMO allows you to play faster at LB which matches better with what they are competing in the AFC with.

Phillips had the same questions raised about converting from a 4-3 when he went to the Rams with Donald etc and made it work. Littleton had success in his scheme also. Agree about the lack of pass rushers though. That would need addressing. 

Ths real question is whether Gruden would work with a big name DC like Phillips, don’t see it myself. 

[drfrey13]

14 hours ago, Trojan said:

This is essentially the anti-argument to trading Khalil Mack. Given Gruden traded him, I don't think we are targeting that type of a player unless we happen to hit in the draft... and our GM hasn't really been targeting upside guys early (Quinton Bell and Maxx Crosby come time mind as athletic risk/projections in the 7th and 4th, maybe that Clemson LB Muse we took as well).

I was against the Mack trade but since we are where we are we have to look somewhere else.  I also do not believe we are looking for a top defensive talent.  Been saying it for years that Gruden just wants an average defense at best.  He would rather look good and lose then look bad and win.  Who we have as our DC next year will say a lot about that statement and also if he will bring in someone to call the plays.  We are a bottom team when it comes to play calls.

[BayRaider]

Raheem Morris has turned Atlanta’s D around hugely, and also played Mahomes perfectly. People complain about Morris because he likes more zone concepts, but look at every single game Mahomes has struggled against in his career, and it was a Cover 3 Scheme, or some type of Zone Scheme. Mahomes obliterates man, doesn’t matter if you have Ramsey back there. I’m not saying I want to be purely a zone team, but whatever beats Mahomes consistently.

My third choice, which is probably very unlikely, is Rex Ryan. He’s a horrendous Head Coach, but this guy is always a Top 3 DC in the league, and has the track record and consistency to back it up. Like Gruden, horrible at GM stuff and talent evaluation, but he’s a brilliant defensive mind with a brilliant scheme. Some might be turned off by Rex because we had Rob... but Rex has always been a tremendous coordinator, and Rob has always been trash. And players absolutely love Rex Ryan. They will play hard for him. 

Also my fourth choice is the Seattle guy you guys were mentioning. Seems to have a solid track record calling plays and developing Secondary talent. Just what we need. I have Philips, Morris, and Ryan above him because I prefer someone a little more experienced, and a more proven track record of Top 5 Defenses, but he’s definitely my #4 choice and I would have no issues with him. 
 

1) Wade Philips

2) Raheem Morris

3) Rex Ryan

4) Kris Richard

I would have no problem what so ever with any of these four hires. 

I do not want: Rod Marinelli, Joe Barry, Charles Woodson, Matt Patricia. All have been mentioned by fans, or linked somehow. I especially would not want Woodson or Patricia. Woodson is super inexperienced, not what we need. I’ve also never liked Patricia as a DC. 

[Turnobili]

1) Wade Phillips. tier of his own. has quite the track record of turning around some of the worst defenses in the league, and doing so rather quickly.

gap

2) Raheem Morris. he's more scheme-flexibile and recently did what Phillips does often, take over a bad defense and instantly improve results. He also has a connection to Gruden, so is the more likely hire.

3) everyone else

[big_palooka]

I like Morris as the top option. He's great with the secondary where the Raider needs help. 

And I could see him actually getting Mo Hurst on the field more than 50% of the time. 

Likely won't want Beasly and Takk back in that case.

[RaidersAreOne]

If we don't get Wade I am all in on Morris. However he may not even be available.

[BayRaider]

4 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

If we don't get Wade I am all in on Morris. However he may not even be available.

Personally I think the Falcons will go with an offensive mind. Ryan deserves it. He has never had an offensive head coach as far as I remember. I could still see him getting a HC job, but Jags or Texans. Personally I’d say his HC chances are around 35%. 

[BayRaider]

If we do land Morris, which I think is the likely hire, if our defense looks even remotely good, he’s getting a HC job in 2022.

Then we are back to searching again. 
 

Although I don’t think that should play any role in hiring or not hiring. Can’t play “what ifs”. 

[Blazer026]

12 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

If we do land Morris, which I think is the likely hire, if our defense looks even remotely good, he’s getting a HC job in 2022.

Then we are back to searching again. 
 

Although I don’t think that should play any role in hiring or not hiring. Can’t play “what ifs”. 

I agree with ya. Would be happy to have that problem 

[big_palooka]

17 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

If we do land Morris, which I think is the likely hire, if our defense looks even remotely good, he’s getting a HC job in 2022.

Then we are back to searching again. 
 

Although I don’t think that should play any role in hiring or not hiring. Can’t play “what ifs”. 

If the defense is good enough to get a DC a head coach job, there will have to be a massive uptick in development and added talent.

[RaidersAreOne]

10 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

If the defense is good enough to get a DC a head coach job, there will have to be a massive uptick in development and added talent.

I agree with this look. Imagine passing on the first good DC we may get in decades because we're worried he may leave us after significantly improving the biggest issue we have. We could just settle for a worse DC option and limit our growth as a team, but at least we know our guy isn't going anywhere!

All in all it's Wade or Morris for me. 

[MrOaktown_56]

16 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I agree with this look. Imagine passing on the first good DC we may get in decades because we're worried he may leave us after significantly improving the biggest issue we have. We could just settle for a worse DC option and limit our growth as a team, but at least we know our guy isn't going anywhere!

All in all it's Wade or Morris for me. 

Plus good DC's bring in good assistants who are essentially groomed for an eventual takeover.

[jimkelly02]

On 12/30/2020 at 12:20 PM, Dessie said:

Phillips had the same questions raised about converting from a 4-3 when he went to the Rams with Donald etc and made it work. Littleton had success in his scheme also. Agree about the lack of pass rushers though. That would need addressing. 

Ths real question is whether Gruden would work with a big name DC like Phillips, don’t see it myself. 

I’m not saying Wade Phillips CANT run a successful 3-4 defense here and adapt the talent he do have but i do Have several major concerns:

(btw Phillips has never run a 4-3 defense his entire career And given this would likely be his last coaching gig it’s very unlikely he reinvents himself and designs 4-3 scheme).  

1.  The Rams had way more defensive talent than We did.  

2. The vast majority of sacks the Rams Defense got was from the DL And not the OLBs.  We don’t have DL talent that is capable of getting enough pressure to have a high ranking defense.  

3.  I’ve said it several times and will continue to say it: we can’t afford to sign another “re-thread DC”... by which I mean a coach whose had success in the past but that scheme was figured out and the coach wasn’t able to adapt it to continuously stay ahead.  I don’t care if a coach had a good defense 7,6,5,4 years ago but then fell Off 3,2,1 years ago and got fired..... I don’t care about past success other than showing me the coach meets basic qualifying requirements.  I care about what the coach will Do for us over the next 1-3 years.  So we need a coach who can continuously adapt his defense.
So when I read these tweets I became really concerned about Phillips ability to adapt his defense in the future.
https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/07/nfl-rams-wade-phillips-sean-mcvay-defensive-coordinator/amp/

 Im Also really concerned about his ability to create mismatches for our players and “manufacturer” pressures and sacks, his ability to adapt his scheme on a week to week basis and more importantly at halftime/throughout the game.

I could go on and on but read those tweets and tell me that’s the coach for us.  Nope!  Give me a young innovative DC. What are the chances we get the peak Wade Phillips at the end of his career.... i Just really doubt it.  Seriously reading those tweets is scary!  It’s the opposite Of everything I (and the Raiders should) want in a DC.

I will say I really like that Wade plays man coverage.  That’s huge to me.... Arnette and Mullen (plus I.Johnson and Even Robertson) are press man corners who are significantly worse when playing Zone.  I want to see our young CBs reach peak development in years 2 and 3 (the most important years) and moving to a coverage scheme that doesn’t fit them could really hurt or even ruin their development.  I really think we need a DC who will predominantly play man coverage..... and PRESS man coverage!  Of course we’d need a legit, rangy FS to be a safety blanket for the defense.

[jimkelly02]

4 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Plus good DC's bring in good assistants who are essentially groomed for an eventual takeover.

That is very true.... 

But I think the benefit of a good DC bringing in good assistants is More about:

1.  all levels of the defense having a position coach that brings the best out of them

2. The defense being synchronized (everyone on same page.... we didn’t have that with PG) and the coaches understanding all levels of the defense.

3.  Better coaches who have experienced in the scheme together have a much better chance of recommending players to draft that will have success.  
 

the ability to promote a position coach to DC within a few years is definitely important though..... mainly because it allows for continuity.  A lacK of continuity is often why our draft picks have failed.... we can’t keep switching coaches and schemes every 2-3 years! We end up with man covers playing zone, existing players not fitting the new scheme... even if they have the talent/ability to cross over their not being utilized to they’re max.  Plus, how can you sign good FAs to long term Deals if your DC and coaches are on the firing block every year... the players psyche and moral needs continuity.... it’s not good to for them to constantly be questioning if there’s a future for them with the team/scheme.  How can they become fully committed?

[jimkelly02]

On 12/30/2020 at 6:02 PM, big_palooka said:

I like Morris as the top option. He's great with the secondary where the Raider needs help. 

And I could see him actually getting Mo Hurst on the field more than 50% of the time. 

Likely won't want Beasly and Takk back in that case.

Takk was a mistake to sign.... it was just another blunder by Mayock... IMO. It wasn’t a massive blunder but it was a blunder none the less. How many teams claimed him and then realized he wasn’t going to play this year? 2! we signed him Nov 23rd  (day one of week 12).  I’d really like to know what we believed the chances of him playing  6,5,4,3,2,1 games were?  If I remember correctly he was only POSSIBLY available for 1-2 games.   Why pay him 655k and not carry that cap space over to ‘21?  It’s not a ton of money but it’s a trend of wasting a little bit of cap space here and there, over and over.  If you want to take a chance on Takk then sign him to the PS once he clears waivers.... and if he doesn’t oh well.