What to do at QB?

[jsthomp2007]

45 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I'm going to let this play out. For all I know, Deshaun is scummy and this is a pattern, but I will simply say I think the timing is very interesting as are the connections of the lawyers to McNair.

Hopefully this doesn't turn into a scene from the Last Boy Scout 

[Broncofan]

57 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I'm going to let this play out. For all I know, Deshaun is scummy and this is a pattern, but I will simply say I think the timing is very interesting as are the connections of the lawyers to McNair.

All 3 allegations - no contact or physical force used.   The last one - he's on his back, only giving verbal directions - after flying in the party in question to meet in a hotel room.   And to be clear - that's the plaintiff's worst allegation, with no response from Watson.    Honestly - it sounds like he's getting sued for solicitation.   Maybe there's more coming, and I think unless Watson can show these events never happened, one can guesss he was getting some "extras" with his massages.  But that's not a crime (well, actually in some places, it is, but it's not a felony crime, and not one that's going to deter teams from wanting him).   

I wouldn't want to be him facing his GF, though (lol).   That part isn't going away.    But from a football perspective - and to keep it at that - it's probably going to pause until all the complaints are public.  Then we'll see.  But yeah, the timing, how the lawyer is actually trying to try the case in social media first, the attempt to get a financial settlement first, and the actual substance of the complaints so far (keeping in mind it's the plaintiff only getting a chance to speak), I don't see a career-altering event...yet.  Still, gotta wait for all the facts to come out....

Edited March 18, 2021 by Broncofan

[BroncosFan2010]

Ya, I mean there is a massage and there is a 'massage'. If you fly someone in, its almost certainly for a 'massage'. No coercion outside a verbal request (And it doesnt seem like he went crazy when told 'no' either, at least by my definition), no contact, no physical force. IDK, just seems like a non story but some are more puritcanal than others. I think all this stuff should be legal if your of age. Criminalization just leads to more violence and exploitation. Not to mention moral high horsery. 

But if it drops his asking price in any way, I am happy. 

[Broncofan]

20 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

Ya, I mean there is a massage and there is a 'massage'. If you fly someone in, its almost certainly for a 'massage'. No coercion outside a verbal request (And it doesnt seem like he went crazy when told 'no' either, at least by my definition), no contact, no physical force. IDK, just seems like a non story but some are more puritcanal than others. I think all this stuff should be legal if your of age. Criminalization just leads to more violence and exploitation. Not to mention moral high horsery. 

But if it drops his asking price in any way, I am happy. 

I hate to say this, but if this is the worst that comes out, and it's still no force, no contact, and only verbal communication (and no force and lying down on his back?  Um ok) - my prediction is that Watson's not going to get dinged.   It's pretty clear he's soliciting, but again, that's not something that violates league policy.

Now what I do think this does - unless the claims continue to be so absurd, and this dies a quick death (especially if the texts / contact tracing shows it's not even an issue) - this may delay things until after the draft.   Ironically, that's the last thing Houston's FO should want - because they have no idea what pick value they're buying for 2022-24.  But that also helps us IMMENSELY.   Because then we aren't behind NYJ, MIA or CAR in pick value (although if MIA moves back, they're also likely getting more 2022 ammo - but then again, everything they're doing says they are committing to Tua - ok, whatever, I won't complain).

Bottom line - I'd say most ppl think this has created enough of a media and a PR storm that it's at the very least delayed trade talks, and it seems unlikely to resolve before the 2021 draft.  That actually works in our favor, I won't complain.    I also think on the flip side, it will likely remove Carolina from competition - because there is no way Carolina is going to stand pat.  If they missed on Stafford after offering 1.8 for him, and they were hard on Watson - they're likely going to be the team that moves up with Miami to 1.3 to get their Rd1 rookie.  It's just my read, but there's a lot to base that off.  We'll see.

Edited March 18, 2021 by Broncofan

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

Bottom line - I'd say most ppl think this has created enough of a media and a PR storm that it's at the very least delayed trade talks, and it seems unlikely to resolve before the 2021 draft.  That actually works in our favor, I won't complain.    I also think on the flip side, it will likely remove Carolina from competition - because there is no way Carolina is going to stand pat.  If they missed on Stafford after offering 1.8 for him, and they were hard on Watson - they're likely going to be the team that moves up with Miami to 1.3 to get their Rd1 rookie.  It's just my read, but there's a lot to base that off.  We'll see.

I think this hurts us I have a feeling bridgewater was a qb they were targeting if Watson went there. 

[Broncofan]

2 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I think this hurts us I have a feeling bridgewater was a qb they were targeting if Watson went there. 

At his salary and his complete lack of upside I wouldn’t sweat it if you are thinking we’d look there.   
 

Part of the problem is the bar for what helps teams compete for the division crown and a bye QB-wise is now a lot higher than it was 2 years ago with Herbert & Mahomes.   Bridge isn’t the answer there. 

Edited March 18, 2021 by Broncofan

[BroncosFan2010]

Teddy would be the best QB we have had since Petyon, but he isnt good enough to win a game. Just not lose one. We dont have a 'get a QB that wont lose the game' caliber roster. In fact those rosters are really rare (I would argue our SB winning roster was one). 

We have talent, but to truly compete need a guy back there that can take over and win a game for you from time to time. 

Watson can do that. 

[paul-mac]

12 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

I think this hurts us I have a feeling bridgewater was a qb they were targeting if Watson went there. 

God I hope not. Teddy Bridgewater is the definition of mediocre. Really he should be a backup. 

[thebestever6]

Paton says 9 is in play for a Qb wow completely different from Before.

[anewdawn]

7 hours ago, broncos67 said:

I'm going to let this play out. For all I know, Deshaun is scummy and this is a pattern, but I will simply say I think the timing is very interesting as are the connections of the lawyers to McNair.

when black millionaires try to f with white billionaires.  Night and day my friends.  This has become personal.  Houston always knew of this and kept it in their back pockets.  So a couple days after getting tyrod this comes out.  Wow.  So love Mike Wilbolm of PTI .  I'm white but if there is any league that mirrors slavery its the NFL.  As Mike calls it - its a plantation mentality.   S fn true.   Just a joke of a league but yet I love it so much............  

[Broncofan]

3 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Paton says 9 is in play for a Qb wow completely different from Before.

This is no coincidence, but it could be some intentional misdirection.    I think it does reflect that Paton isn't that sold on Lock - otherwise he wouldn't have made an offer to Stafford, and he certainly wouldn't be in on Watson.    But it may not actually be to get the best QB available at 1.9 no matter what, but to create huge trade demand for moving back.  Let me explain......

Today we have 2 new developments:

1.  Kyle Fuller is now available.  If we get Fuller, then CB isn't a pressing need with Darby signed, and Ojemudia as our developmental 3rd CB (and Callahan inside).    CB at 1.9 could have been argued as BPA depending on how the draft falls for the 8 picks before us - but if we don't need to, then we can be a lot more flexible to go in a lot of different directions.

2.  With a NFL investigation for Watson's crazy allegations (at this stage, this is what it is) - there's no way it's wrapping up in 6 weeks.  That means that there's no trade until after the draft.   So if a team is interested in Watson should this be resolved - they need 2022-24 draft capital and young players, not 2021 picks.  There's always the possibility Watson's future will be murky, but based on what we know today - teams can forecast resolution eventually - but certainly only after the 2021 draft.

So with #1 & #2 as the new reality - if you want to trade back, creating demand for 1.9 is how you maximize value.   Philly is already doing it by insisting QB isn't ruled out at 1.6 - and teams likely would have to leapfrog Carolina to get the 4th QB (as it looks almost a lock the first 3 QB's will go in the first 5 picks).     Similarly, Paton could want Mac Jones at 1.9 - or he simply could be creating the demand that if a team wants Mac Jones, they can't get him a 13, 15, 17, 20 - they have to move up to 1.9.

For a team like Chicago, or New Orleans - that means giving the Watson / Mahomes package, if not more - a 2022 1st, and if it's a team in the mid-20's, a 2021 day 2 pick, and maybe a 2022 day 2 pick.

We then address BPA in the 20 to mid-20's range - right where RT (James is gone this year, and hard to rely upon), EDGE (long-term) and maybe ILB (Collins?) can be argued as BPA.    Moreover - we suddenly become the Miami of 2021 post-draft - by having a ton of draft capital.   Just when Watson's situation is likely to resolve.   With either a similar or lower price - but we're in control with the best haul of 2022 picks to deal.   

The end result:

1.  Our secondary is addressed.

2.  We'd get BPA at another area of need, and it would fit better with overall BPA value if we went in a need area in the 20's.

3.   More importantly - we get a TON of draft capital - so we are in the pole position for Watson.  Or if that doesn't fall through, we're in great position to address QB in 2022, no matter what, in the likely event Lock isn't the answer to face off vs. Mahomes/Herbert.

-----------------------

All of the above needs Paton to get Fuller - if that doesn't happen, the sequence above can't happen.  But that's also why the timing of Paton's statement is really interesting - because Watson is now unavailable until after the draft at the earliest, and our biggest need suddenly has a FA solution, and we have the cap space and interest/fit .   

Now, maybe Paton would not let the 4th QB drop at 1.9 - but I doubt that's realistic.  I think 4 QB's are gone by 1.6 - 1.7.   So the QB talk might be Mac Jones at 1.9 - or it might be creating the demand so a team targeting Mac Jones later on.... MUST now move up and pay up in premium 2022 picks to get him (1st + day 2 if it's mid-20's, or Chicago at least a 2022 1st + 1.20).  

It's wild, but the timing of Fuller becoming available, and the certainty that Watson isn't going to be dealt with an opened investigation (but also the strong possibility long-term this isn't an issue, based on what's presented so far) - it kinda all fits.   Guess we'll see - but might as well put it out there.   Kind of a long-hand version of @Scoundrel's QB dreams ("I dreamt we got Fuller, moved back and then got Watson") lol.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Broncofan

[Scoundrel]

1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

This is no coincidence, but it could be some intentional misdirection.    I think it does reflect that Paton isn't that sold on Lock - otherwise he wouldn't have made an offer to Stafford, and he certainly wouldn't be in on Watson.    But it may not actually be to get the best QB available at 1.9 no matter what, but to create huge trade demand for moving back.  Let me explain......

Today we have 2 new developments:

1.  Kyle Fuller is now available.  If we get Fuller, then CB isn't a pressing need with Darby signed, and Ojemudia as our developmental 3rd CB (and Callahan inside).    CB at 1.9 could have been argued as BPA depending on how the draft falls for the 8 picks before us - but if we don't need to, then we can be a lot more flexible to go in a lot of different directions.

2.  With a NFL investigation for Watson's crazy allegations (at this stage, this is what it is) - there's no way it's wrapping up in 6 weeks.  That means that there's no trade until after the draft.   So if a team is interested in Watson should this be resolved - they need 2022-24 draft capital and young players, not 2021 picks.  There's always the possibility Watson's future will be murky, but based on what we know today - teams can forecast resolution eventually - but certainly only after the 2021 draft.

So with #1 & #2 as the new reality - if you want to trade back, creating demand for 1.9 is how you maximize value.   Philly is already doing it by insisting QB isn't ruled out at 1.6 - and teams likely would have to leapfrog Carolina to get the 4th QB (as it looks almost a lock the first 3 QB's will go in the first 5 picks).     Similarly, Paton could want Mac Jones at 1.9 - or he simply could be creating the demand that if a team wants Mac Jones, they can't get him a 13, 15, 17, 20 - they have to move up to 1.9.

For a team like Chicago, or New Orleans - that means giving the Watson / Mahomes package, if not more - a 2022 1st, and if it's a team in the mid-20's, a 2021 day 2 pick, and maybe a 2022 day 2 pick.

We then address BPA in the 20 to mid-20's range - right where RT (James is gone this year, and hard to rely upon), EDGE (long-term) and maybe ILB (Collins?) can be argued as BPA.    Moreover - we suddenly become the Miami of 2021 post-draft - by having a ton of draft capital.   Just when Watson's situation is likely to resolve.   With either a similar or lower price - but we're in control with the best haul of 2022 picks to deal.   

The end result:

1.  Our secondary is addressed.

2.  We'd get BPA at another area of need, and it would fit better with overall BPA value if we went in a need area in the 20's.

3.   More importantly - we get a TON of draft capital - so we are in the pole position for Watson.  Or if that doesn't fall through, we're in great position to address QB in 2022, no matter what, in the likely event Lock isn't the answer to face off vs. Mahomes/Herbert.

-----------------------

All of the above needs Paton to get Fuller - if that doesn't happen, the sequence above can't happen.  But that's also why the timing of Paton's statement is really interesting - because Watson is now unavailable until after the draft at the earliest, and our biggest need suddenly has a FA solution, and we have the cap space and interest/fit .   

Now, maybe Paton would not let the 4th QB drop at 1.9 - but I doubt that's realistic.  I think 4 QB's are gone by 1.6 - 1.7.   So the QB talk might be Mac Jones at 1.9 - or it might be creating the demand so a team targeting Mac Jones later on.... MUST now move up and pay up in premium 2022 picks to get him (1st + day 2 if it's mid-20's, or Chicago at least a 2022 1st + 1.20).  

It's wild, but the timing of Fuller becoming available, and the certainty that Watson isn't going to be dealt with an opened investigation (but also the strong possibility long-term this isn't an issue, based on what's presented so far) - it kinda all fits.   Guess we'll see - but might as well put it out there.   Kind of a long-hand version of @Scoundrel's QB dreams ("I dreamt we got Fuller, moved back and then got Watson") lol.

The first dream was we drafted Sutton which was the night of round 1. Second dream was Will Grier which did not come true obviously. 

[Broncofan]

3 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

The first dream was we drafted Sutton which was the night of round 1. Second dream was Will Grier which did not come true obviously. 

Only your good dreams come true.   Let's work with that.

[Scoundrel]

9 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

Only your good dreams come true.   Let's work with that.

Yeah maybe one was a dream and the other a nightmare 

[jsthomp2007]

I think any Watson trade possibility is dead in the water now.  One allegation, two allegations...okay I can see a "he said/she said" or a mishap...but seven allegations...that's too much...bro did something wrong.  I will roll with Lock over Watson now over simple character issues now.