What to do at QB?

[Broncofan]

7 minutes ago, thebestever6 said:

Philly and The Rams did it in 2016 as well. It just seems like Miami and the Jets are sure trade down canidates. I mean if Miami signs Galladay like expected they really gonna stay at 3 to take Chase? 

I wonder who blinks first on the Watson front.

I think we know that JAX isn't moving out, though.   The fact that the 2 & 3 pick teams are involved peripherally / centrally with Watson, AND the fact no one really knows where the other QB's land pecking-order wise - means trading up is impossible to forecast this early who is selling, and where teams have to go to ensure they get their guy.    LAR-PHI at least they knew it was 1 & 2, and the teams were selling with no other interests.   Same with NYJ-IND in 2018.     Those 2 situations are far less commonplace (teams are willing to trade back, and the QB draft pick target for the team moving up is very easy to target).

Edited March 16, 2021 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

54 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

Gotta wonder how much the FO/coaching staff likes Trey Lance. I think we're all assuming the Fangio regime is in a lame duck period of sorts, but what if Paton/Elway really like him and want to move ahead with him regardless of what happens this year? Anything is possible, especially for a team with financial concerns/ownership questions. Why not just run it back with Fangio if players like him and the team plays hard for him? In that case, could absolutely see making a run at a QB like Lance.

I said it yesterday but I really don’t think Paton is going to use premium capital on a QB (either at 1.9 or 1.9+ in a trade up) when the coaching staff is in an evaluation year and the ownership situation is unsettled. Taking someone like Lance - who I like but is a polarizing prospect given both his play style and FCS background - could poison the well with some potential HC/OC candidates next year should it come to it.

I see us signing a Trubisky type to compete with Lock, who will make the fanbase and radio shock jocks set their hair on fire, but it’s smart to (I’ll say it again) play the long game. 

Another reason not to go after an expensive, polished but unspectacular vet (Fitz and Smith most notably) is Vic, coaching for his job, will go with the safe and boring vet and thus Paton won’t get a chance to make his evaluation of Lock after a real offseason and continuity of offense. I think Paton wants to give Lock a chance to prove he can be the guy (I have my doubts) but better to have a solid roster, ample cap space and maybe an extra pick or two, going in to next year with a new owner and, likely, a new coaching staff. 

[AKRNA]

2 hours ago, broncos67 said:

Gotta wonder how much the FO/coaching staff likes Trey Lance. I think we're all assuming the Fangio regime is in a lame duck period of sorts, but what if Paton/Elway really like him and want to move ahead with him regardless of what happens this year? Anything is possible, especially for a team with financial concerns/ownership questions. Why not just run it back with Fangio if players like him and the team plays hard for him? In that case, could absolutely see making a run at a QB like Lance.

I think that's a great observation/speculation.

Everything I've read or heard from any of the three sounds like they're sort of a "mutual admiration" group. I don't see them breaking it up without a very good reason.

[broncos67]

1 hour ago, AKRNA said:

I think that's a great observation/speculation.

Everything I've read or heard from any of the three sounds like they're sort of a "mutual admiration" group. I don't see them breaking it up without a very good reason.

I agree. For the record, I'm relatively lukewarm on Vic. I think he's a tremendous defensive mind. I'm not sure he's fully figured out how to handle some of the other aspects of coaching, but the team tends to be well prepared and I've seen players play hard regardless of record. 

I do think that a winning record this year is going to be necessary for Vic to stick around, unless plagued by injuries again, but I think Vic has a much longer leash than coaches of the past would have had with the same W/L record for a variety of reasons.

[jolly red giant]

I get the impression that Paton and Fangio have a good relationship and I wouldn't be surprised to see Fangio here after next season unless it is an absolute dumpster fire,

[The Helicopter]

5 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I said it yesterday but I really don’t think Paton is going to use premium capital on a QB (either at 1.9 or 1.9+ in a trade up) when the coaching staff is in an evaluation year and the ownership situation is unsettled. Taking someone like Lance - who I like but is a polarizing prospect given both his play style and FCS background - could poison the well with some potential HC/OC candidates next year should it come to it.

I see us signing a Trubisky type to compete with Lock, who will make the fanbase and radio shock jocks set their hair on fire, but it’s smart to (I’ll say it again) play the long game. 

Another reason not to go after an expensive, polished but unspectacular vet (Fitz and Smith most notably) is Vic, coaching for his job, will go with the safe and boring vet and thus Paton won’t get a chance to make his evaluation of Lock after a real offseason and continuity of offense. I think Paton wants to give Lock a chance to prove he can be the guy (I have my doubts) but better to have a solid roster, ample cap space and maybe an extra pick or two, going in to next year with a new owner and, likely, a new coaching staff. 

I completely agree. Paton/GM should be forward thinking and putting the franchise in position for continued, future success. Since he wasn't responsible for selecting Vic or Lock, he would be wise to focus his attention on righting the rest of the ship (draft pics, contracts, etc) and letting the chips fall with those two (among others). One or both may rise or fail in 2021 and for now, that's all on Elway.

[bMiller031]

2 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

I completely agree. Paton/GM should be forward thinking and putting the franchise in position for continued, future success. Since he wasn't responsible for selecting Vic or Lock, he would be wise to focus his attention on righting the rest of the ship (draft pics, contracts, etc) and letting the chips fall with those two (among others). One or both may rise or fail in 2021 and for now, that's all on Elway.

 

2 minutes ago, The Helicopter said:

I completely agree. Paton/GM should be forward thinking and putting the franchise in position for continued, future success. Since he wasn't responsible for selecting Vic or Lock, he would be wise to focus his attention on righting the rest of the ship (draft pics, contracts, etc) and letting the chips fall with those two (among others). One or both may rise or fail in 2021 and for now, that's all on Elway.

Agree with the rationale but if Lance is Justin Herbert we're still gonna kick ourselves.  Paxton was the reason we don't have Josh Allen, IMO.  We picked Chubb in '18 and I agreed with the rationale at the time (bc of Paxton in '16) but if the QB pans out it's almost never a mistake. 

[7DnBrnc53]

5 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I said it yesterday but I really don’t think Paton is going to use premium capital on a QB (either at 1.9 or 1.9+ in a trade up) when the coaching staff is in an evaluation year and the ownership situation is unsettled. Taking someone like Lance - who I like but is a polarizing prospect given both his play style and FCS background - could poison the well with some potential HC/OC candidates next year should it come to it.

I see us signing a Trubisky type to compete with Lock, who will make the fanbase and radio shock jocks set their hair on fire, but it’s smart to (I’ll say it again) play the long game. 

Another reason not to go after an expensive, polished but unspectacular vet (Fitz and Smith most notably) is Vic, coaching for his job, will go with the safe and boring vet and thus Paton won’t get a chance to make his evaluation of Lock after a real offseason and continuity of offense. I think Paton wants to give Lock a chance to prove he can be the guy (I have my doubts) but better to have a solid roster, ample cap space and maybe an extra pick or two, going in to next year with a new owner and, likely, a new coaching staff. 

Here's the thing, though: Unless they get Watson (which doesn't seem likely), who are you going to get? Darnold?

According to Walter Football, there will be three QB's (Sam Howell of UNC, Tyler Shough of Texas Tech, and Kedon Slovis of USC) going in the first four picks next year (and nobody else in round 1). In 2023, they have four in the first round (C.J. Stroud of Ohio State going #1, D.J. Uiagalelei of Clemson going #2, Grant Gunnell going 10th, and Alabama's Bryce Young going 26th to Denver of all places). In 2024, they just have one guy in the first round, and he is projected to go #1.

So, if you don't get the top guys this year, you may have to wait two years, and are Gunnell and Young better than Lance? Don't know for sure, but my guess is that they probably aren't.

 

 

Edited March 16, 2021 by 7DnBrnc53

[thebestever6]

With the qb market drying up gotta think Darnold gets traded soon. 

I wonder which happens first Mitch Trubisky gets signed, Foles traded, or Darnold.

[thebestever6]

Nice to know we weren't in on Dalton

[Zukhyubern]

I'm actually pretty surprised we haven't heard any rumors of JAX trying to trade for Watson, unless I've been missing something. Wouldn't #1 overall/Lawrence be as good as you can get for Houston? They still have a solid D and a good amount of talent across the board plus boatloads of future cap space - does this just not appeal to Watson? 

 

[Broncofan]

No guarantees but if this is true that really changes the calculus in the race.   Remember that Watson has the no-trade clause so there’s a staring contest between him and Houston’s FO. 
 

 

[Broncofan]

And to expand on past discussion so it doesn't get missed here - for those that have pointed to Allbright's insistence that the Watson-to-Denver ship has sailed and it's not happening - he's hedged back on that considerably with the latest developments.

Now what he's saying - HOU FO hasn't taken calls, and made him available.  But when they do - Denver will pursue.  That's a 180 from his prior stance.  

And again - Houston signing Tyrod Taylor with clear significant incentives should he be the starter, all the way up to 12M, is another sign their FO is finally going to realize what everyone does - Watson's played his last game in a Texan uniform.   The only question is who gets him (and obviously we can't bank on that, but we're in the mix for sure), for how much.

There's also been a new story out - but OMG the details are incredibly sketchy.   A laywer who's McNair's neighbor posted on IG about an upcoming civil suit toward Watson - but the case hasn't been filed yet.  The case details that emerge, and the lawyer's post - weird to say the least.    Frankly, like with Von and any allegations, I'll reserve coming to conclusions until the facts come out - but the circumstances here about timing / how it's been released actually would point more to the lawyer & McNair family here.   Allbright has the details, Robinson's capsule hits the high points (or low ones lol)....

 

Edited March 17, 2021 by Broncofan

[broncos67]

15 hours ago, 7DnBrnc53 said:

Here's the thing, though: Unless they get Watson (which doesn't seem likely), who are you going to get? Darnold?

According to Walter Football, there will be three QB's (Sam Howell of UNC, Tyler Shough of Texas Tech, and Kedon Slovis of USC) going in the first four picks next year (and nobody else in round 1). In 2023, they have four in the first round (C.J. Stroud of Ohio State going #1, D.J. Uiagalelei of Clemson going #2, Grant Gunnell going 10th, and Alabama's Bryce Young going 26th to Denver of all places). In 2024, they just have one guy in the first round, and he is projected to go #1.

So, if you don't get the top guys this year, you may have to wait two years, and are Gunnell and Young better than Lance? Don't know for sure, but my guess is that they probably aren't.

 

 

You can't think like this when it comes to QBs in the draft though. Two years ago, were people talking about Trey Lance, Mac Jones, and Zach Wilson as QBs in the Top 15? No. Projecting QBs two years out is futile, IMO.

[The Helicopter]

Watson sitting in Houston for a year could play right into Denver's hand...interesting...