Goff’s future with the Rams

[NYRamsFan88]

49 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

Goff also had a much better coach than Manning. 
 

Manning and Goff may have had similar careers thus far into year 5 but no way are they same mentally. Manning was touted as one of the best prospects ever. Manning was playing during the time QB was much harder and it wasn’t as watered down as it is now. 
 

If all else was equal for Manning and Goff the mental aspect was a huge difference. Goff and Manning are no where near the same level of football IQ 

Manning definitely got the crap end of the stick as far as coaching is concerned, that was until Dungy came around. However Manning always had better talent around him...I’d take Harrison, Wayne, James and Faulk ( briefly ) over anything the Rams have had during Goffs time here. 

[jrry32]

1 hour ago, rocky_rams said:

Goff also had a much better coach than Manning. 
 

Manning and Goff may have had similar careers thus far into year 5 but no way are they same mentally. Manning was touted as one of the best prospects ever. Manning was playing during the time QB was much harder and it wasn’t as watered down as it is now. 
 

If all else was equal for Manning and Goff the mental aspect was a huge difference. Goff and Manning are no where near the same level of football IQ 

Peyton Manning had Tom Moore (and Bruce Arians as his QB Coach early in his career), dude. As for mental acuity, probably, but we don't know for sure what Goff will grow into as he matures. And saying the QB position is "watered down" now is misleading. Yes, there have been rule changes that make it easier to pass, which is why you can't perfectly compare the numbers. But Manning was also playing at a time where there was a dearth of QB talent in the NFL. We've been in arguably the golden age of QBing over the last few years. It's a lot tougher to be a great QB in today's game than it was back then because of the competition.

[jrry32]

@The LBC, I found him. I found the QB to develop behind Goff. It's Davis Mills. I hadn't even realized that he declared for the Draft. Frankly, I had forgotten all about him with Stanford not being as good of late. I turned on his tape because I have been looking for just about anybody in this Draft worth a damn after the top 6 QBs, and Mills blew me away.

He's going to need to work and time to develop. He doesn't have much starting experience (11 games). But holy hell, he has a 1st round skillset. 6'4" 225, good mobility for a pocket passer, strong enough to break tackles in the pocket, rifle for an arm, quick release, flashes franchise QB ball placement (will be more consistent in this respect if he cleans up his lower body mechanics), and able to work through pro-style progressions and reads.

He's coming out of a pro-style WCO system with plenty of play-action and under-center experience. The kid has some issues to clean up, and his lack of experience shows (well-disguised defenses fool him and can bait him into picks). But his physical skillset is first round caliber. It's hard to find QBs outside of the top 40 picks who legitimate have franchise QB-level skills without them having some massive flaw in their game. Mills isn't flawless, but his flaws are fixable. That's not usually the case. Hopefully, he doesn't rocket up draft boards over the next three months.

[rocky_rams]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

@The LBC, I found him. I found the QB to develop behind Goff. It's Davis Mills. I hadn't even realized that he declared for the Draft. Frankly, I had forgotten all about him with Stanford not being as good of late. I turned on his tape because I have been looking for just about anybody in this Draft worth a damn after the top 6 QBs, and Mills blew me away.

He's going to need to work and time to develop. He doesn't have much starting experience (11 games). But holy hell, he has a 1st round skillset. 6'4" 225, good mobility for a pocket passer, strong enough to break tackles in the pocket, rifle for an arm, quick release, flashes franchise QB ball placement (will be more consistent in this respect if he cleans up his lower body mechanics), and able to work through pro-style progressions and reads.

He's coming out of a pro-style WCO system with plenty of play-action and under-center experience. The kid has some issues to clean up, and his lack of experience shows (well-disguised defenses fool him and can bait him into picks). But his physical skillset is first round caliber. It's hard to find QBs outside of the top 40 picks who legitimate have franchise QB-level skills without them having some massive flaw in their game. Mills isn't flawless, but his flaws are fixable. That's not usually the case. Hopefully, he doesn't rocket up draft boards over the next three months.

This is a good one. When do you think he will get drafted?

[jrry32]

3 minutes ago, rocky_rams said:

This is a good one. When do you think he will get drafted?

I would guess on Day 2, but it's hard to say with any certainty right now. 

[BStanRamFan]

5 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I would guess on Day 2, but it's hard to say with any certainty right now. 

I watched Jamie Newman highlights last night. watched some interviews, watched interview of his past teammate at Wake. I like him ALOT. Has mechanical issues, but he's known as a vocal leader, freakish athlete from a build standpoint. I'm excited to see how he performs at the Senior Bowl. And you know how much stock we put into the Senior Bowl 🧐

Fun Fact: Newman backed up John Wolford at Wake in 2017.

Edited January 21, 2021 by BStanRamFan

[btfd16]

5 hours ago, BStanRamFan said:

I watched Jamie Newman highlights last night. watched some interviews, watched interview of his past teammate at Wake. I like him ALOT. Has mechanical issues, but he's known as a vocal leader, freakish athlete from a build standpoint. I'm excited to see how he performs at the Senior Bowl. And you know how much stock we put into the Senior Bowl 🧐

Fun Fact: Newman backed up John Wolford at Wake in 2017.

Word out of Georgia was that he was going to be 3rd string and not performing well. Hence the opt out. A lot can change obviously, but that was last I heard from connected Dawgs.

[BStanRamFan]

43 minutes ago, btfd16 said:

Word out of Georgia was that he was going to be 3rd string and not performing well. Hence the opt out. A lot can change obviously, but that was last I heard from connected Dawgs.

Very good to know. Really excited to see how he does in the Senior Bowl. More importantly, how do we trade up to get Trey Lance?

2nd + two 3rd's move us into top 20? Or 2nd + 3rd +future 2nd ? Get it done Les!

[LeotheLion]

17 minutes ago, BStanRamFan said:

Very good to know. Really excited to see how he does in the Senior Bowl. More importantly, how do we trade up to get Trey Lance?

2nd + two 3rd's move us into top 20? Or 2nd + 3rd +future 2nd ? Get it done Les!

Assuming we are talking about Lance falling to 20 which even that seems unlikely, that is worth 850 per draft value chart. Accounting for likely comp picks, we won't even have that much capital if we trade the entire draft. It will take the 2022 first, 2021 2nd, and a bit more. It doesn't help that our 2nd round pick is so late. 

Edited January 21, 2021 by LeotheLion

[BStanRamFan]

2 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

Assuming we are talking about Lance falling to 20 which even that seems unlikely, that is worth 850 per draft value chart. Accounting for likely comp picks, we won't even have that much capital if we trade the entire draft. It will take the 2022 first, 2021 2nd, and a bit more. It doesn't help that our 2nd round pick is so late. 

Damn alright good to know. 

[StLunatic88]

4 hours ago, LeotheLion said:

Assuming we are talking about Lance falling to 20 which even that seems unlikely, that is worth 850 per draft value chart. Accounting for likely comp picks, we won't even have that much capital if we trade the entire draft. It will take the 2022 first, 2021 2nd, and a bit more. It doesn't help that our 2nd round pick is so late. 

And it would be for a QB (even if falling) so other teams would be interested, so bump that value of the pick even more

Edited January 21, 2021 by StLunatic88

[LeotheLion]

18 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

And it would be for a QB (even if falling) so other teams would be interested, so bump that value of the pick even more

Yeah, the team picking 20 is Chicago who we'd likely need to jump for a QB. 

The most likely scenario if we actually are moving up anywhere close to there is a player + picks. Maybe I'm blanking but Darious Williams would seem most likely for that. 

Edited January 22, 2021 by LeotheLion

[jrry32]

5 hours ago, LeotheLion said:

Assuming we are talking about Lance falling to 20 which even that seems unlikely, that is worth 850 per draft value chart. Accounting for likely comp picks, we won't even have that much capital if we trade the entire draft. It will take the 2022 first, 2021 2nd, and a bit more. It doesn't help that our 2nd round pick is so late. 

I'm not a Trey Lance guy. He's too risky for my taste. I'd rather take my chances with Davis Mills later in the draft, personally. Lance is a dangerous runner, but he's not the caliber of athlete that Lamar Jackson is. His running is based a lot more on his size and strength, and I have a feeling NFL teams aren't going to want him to take so many hits.

Watching his one game this season, he was atrocious as a passer. Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn against Central Arkansas. He might have been rusty, as he was more accurate last year. But he also has an ugly, elongated throwing motion and reads the field like a guy who has only been a starter for a year. I get why people are why on him. He's a very good athlete with great size and a very powerful arm. The flashes of accuracy and reads are there. Issue is that you're spending a first round pick on flashes. I don't see a guy who is ready to start immediately. He needs a lot of development. Could end up like Donovan McNabb. Could end up like Jake Locker.

For me, the QB position is about throwing first and foremost. So I'm risk-averse when it comes to guys who aren't consistent throwers of the football. I would have passed on Josh Allen for that reason, and I would have been wrong. But I also would have passed on Jake Locker for that reason and would have been right. Cam Newton is probably the only guy I've evaluated who wasn't a consistent thrower of the football that I would have taken in the first round, and I felt he was a freakishly rare physical talent. I don't think Lance is as physically talented as Cam was. (Well, I should also note that I liked Lamar Jackson too and would have taken him where the Ravens did, in the late first round, but again, Lance isn't as physically talented as Lamar.)

Basically, I understand why people are high on Lance. He's a boom/bust kid. With Josh Allen playing the way he is, it's a lot easier to talk yourself into drafting and developing Lance. I simply wouldn't gamble on him in the first round. The one exception to that statement is if I'm picking between #30 and #32, have a great offensive mind at HC, and have a proven QB I can start for the next couple years. In that case, the juice is worth the squeeze. But frankly, I really, really like Davis Mills's skillset.

[LeotheLion]

1 hour ago, jrry32 said:

I'm not a Trey Lance guy. 

I'm not either. And I'm certainly not a fan of moving up as high as it would take to get him. 

Frankly, I'm not a fan of any QBs or schemes that put an emphasis on QB running. I hope McVay learned something from the Seattle game of how stupid that QB power was with Wolford. It's too risky of a play to get 5 yards. The only people I feel differently for that are Lamar and Kyler who are so fast that they can actually protect themselves from contact. Obviously you want mobility when a play breaks down but designed runs are unnecessary QB hits. 

[rocky_rams]

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

I'm not a Trey Lance guy. He's too risky for my taste. I'd rather take my chances with Davis Mills later in the draft, personally. Lance is a dangerous runner, but he's not the caliber of athlete that Lamar Jackson is. His running is based a lot more on his size and strength, and I have a feeling NFL teams aren't going to want him to take so many hits.

Watching his one game this season, he was atrocious as a passer. Couldn't hit the broadside of a barn against Central Arkansas. He might have been rusty, as he was more accurate last year. But he also has an ugly, elongated throwing motion and reads the field like a guy who has only been a starter for a year. I get why people are why on him. He's a very good athlete with great size and a very powerful arm. The flashes of accuracy and reads are there. Issue is that you're spending a first round pick on flashes. I don't see a guy who is ready to start immediately. He needs a lot of development. Could end up like Donovan McNabb. Could end up like Jake Locker.

For me, the QB position is about throwing first and foremost. So I'm risk-averse when it comes to guys who aren't consistent throwers of the football. I would have passed on Josh Allen for that reason, and I would have been wrong. But I also would have passed on Jake Locker for that reason and would have been right. Cam Newton is probably the only guy I've evaluated who wasn't a consistent thrower of the football that I would have taken in the first round, and I felt he was a freakishly rare physical talent. I don't think Lance is as physically talented as Cam was. (Well, I should also note that I liked Lamar Jackson too and would have taken him where the Ravens did, in the late first round, but again, Lance isn't as physically talented as Lamar.)

Basically, I understand why people are high on Lance. He's a boom/bust kid. With Josh Allen playing the way he is, it's a lot easier to talk yourself into drafting and developing Lance. I simply wouldn't gamble on him in the first round. The one exception to that statement is if I'm picking between #30 and #32, have a great offensive mind at HC, and have a proven QB I can start for the next couple years. In that case, the juice is worth the squeeze. But frankly, I really, really like Davis Mills's skillset.

After further evaluating Lance, this is exactly how I feel about him. 
 

I don’t see him being a top guy for a long time. I see him doing great in the beginning and then fizzling out. 
 

I’d rather a Mac Jones, Kyle Trask...etc fall in our lap. I really like Mac Jones pocket movement but he isn’t super athletic and Trask doesn’t have a good enough arm for my taste. 
 

Stanford produces good QBs I’ll check out Mills