Why is Ja'Marr Chase the consensus top receiver?

[THE DUKE]

Seems like a whole lot of recency bias and conjecture based solely on someone choosing not to play in a global pandemic.

[Ragnarok]

1 hour ago, Ozzy said:

It does seem like Chase is a little less serious than DeVonta Smith when listening to interviews.  Chase was not as vocal with his teammates as DeVonta Smith was and Chase did not seem to react as much on the field during a play or after a play.  He ripped teams apart in terms of big plays but so did almost everyone on that offense for LSU.  Is Chase going to be as good as Justin Jefferson was this year in the NFL?  That would be a surprise, because honestly Jefferson was the better route runner of the two, and the less physically gifted of the two but arguably the more competitive and vocal player on the field.  Did not get near the attention Chase got but had close to the same stats Chase did, had way more catches and close to the same amount of TDs.  Sure not as many big plays granted but was more consistent especially if one looks at the 2018 season.  Would have been nice to see Chase in this LSU offense this year and see what he could do without Jefferson and Burrow around.  But of course that did not happen.

Chase seems to be the type when things go bad he would blame those around him for not getting him his potentially.  DeVonta is the type where if things are not going good, he would turn it to himself and see what he can do to make himself better and make the team better overall not blame those around him.  And if DeVonta was not getting the ball I feel he would be less of a problem than Chase if he was not getting the football.  Still in their football life no way Chase had it harder than DeVonta did and that difficulty DeVonta had just for straight up playing time is crazy.  Jeudy, Ruggs, Waddle, most receivers would have transferred year one after seeing all those guys in the same receiver room.  Hell DeVonta Smith's freshman year at Alabama 2017 they had Calvin Ridley, Jerry Jeudy, Henry Ruggs, Cam Sims, Robert Foster and Tyrell Shavers.  He did not leave with all that talent around him, he fought his way to becoming the most prolific SEC receiver of all time, mind you doing so with a freshman season having only 160 yards total.

Would be great to know exactly how Chase spent his day over these last few months but that will obviously never come out and be shown or told.    

You went from not as serious in interviews to less vocal to less competitive...and I don't get the logic behind that journey.

This whole paragraph is speculation.  What have we ever seen to even suggest that Chase seems to be the type to blame those around him when things go bad?

[thrILL!]

10 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Chase had a season last year equal to what Devonta did this year, but did it at age 19 as opposed to 22.  He's also damn near 40 lbs bigger than Smith.

Chase had an outstanding year but it was not equal to what Smith did this season esp under the circumstances of Covid.   He won the Heisman Trophy (Chase didn't even crack the top 10 in Heisman votes) so no it's not equal.  Smith's competitive fire had him giving everything he had to his team instead of sitting at home.

Chase is a beast tho and any team will be lucky to have either WR.

[MrOaktown_56]

2 hours ago, thrILL! said:

Chase had an outstanding year but it was not equal to what Smith did this season esp under the circumstances of Covid.   He won the Heisman Trophy (Chase didn't even crack the top 10 in Heisman votes) so no it's not equal.  Smith's competitive fire had him giving everything he had to his team instead of sitting at home.

Chase is a beast tho and any team will be lucky to have either WR.

 

4 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Seems like a whole lot of recency bias and conjecture based solely on someone choosing not to play in a global pandemic.

I call BS on implying poor work ethic or anything of that sort from opting out in the pandemic. I'm in medicine ( I don't want to dox further). No one will tell me with a straight face that sitting out during a COVID year and protecting your family's future earnings means you're not a team player.

Also this is the NFL. No one gives a **** about heisman voting. 

[INbengalfan]

12 hours ago, Ozzy said:

My evidence is his production and development over four years of his career.  Anyone think of him as a Heisman Trophy winner when he was a FR in college?  Well he is now.  Also his body language on and off the field, how he interviews, how he interacts with his teammates and how he acts during the games after plays good or bad.  Those are also points of evidence to me in how competitive the kid actually is.  

You just described Tim Tebow, without the COVID backdrop.

 

If you want to place Smith in spot 1 all by himself, fine.  He has plenty of citable evidence for the claim, but instead this comes off as a slight smear campaign downgrading Chase.  It isn't like Chase was the only player to opt out this season.  far from it.  Does it help Smith that he played?  Sure.  But for some reason,. because Chase played with a national championship team in 2019, you somehow equate that with chickening out.  I don't buy that logic.

So ignoring that Chase lost his QB, etc, you are saying that Chase drops behind Smith for not playing.  Do Sewell and Slater drop below Darrisaw?  He played, they didn't.  I could list many instances of this, but let's skip that.  My only question is do all of the opt out players drop on your board, or is it just Chase? Because if it's only Chase, then you have some sort of bias in the comparison of the two.

[THE DUKE]

Danny Wuerfel won a Heisman too.

Ja'Marr Chase 2019: 84 catches, 1780 yards, 20 TD, 21.2 avg

Devonta Smith 2020:  117 catches, 1856 yards, 23 TD, 15.6 avg

Chase averaged almost 5 more yards per catch, and nearly had as many TD's despite 33 less catches, and I imagine less targets.  Oh, and Chase was also a big reason why his team won a National Championship

[Ozzy]

Devonta Smith 13 games: 117 catches, 1856 yards, 23 TDs and 15.6 yards per catch.

Ja'Marr Chase 14 games: 84 catches, 1780 yards, 18 TDs and 21.2 yards per catch.

 

10 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Danny Wuerfel won a Heisman too.

Ja'Marr Chase 2019: 84 catches, 1780 yards, 20 TD, 21.2 avg

Devonta Smith 2020:  117 catches, 1856 yards, 23 TD, 15.6 avg

Chase averaged almost 5 more yards per catch, and nearly had as many TD's despite 33 less catches, and I imagine less targets.  Oh, and Chase was also a big reason why his team won a National Championship

Did the same thing and looked at the production, sure Chase has more big plays, I am not that concerned with it because.

 

Who had the better QB, Ja'Marr Chase, who had better receiver talent around him to keep him open?  Ja'Marr Chase.  Clearly Waddle was out a majority of the year with an injury, Metche is good but Justin Jefferson and Terrace Marshall are better.  So Chase had a superior QB to play with and better receivers around him to keep him clean and free.  Oh and he played one less game than Chase did as well.

 

So to call what DeVonta Smith did crap when he had less talent around him in terms of QB and WR talent, also played in stadiums that had obviously less people in them which to me is far more difficult to do and to get up for.  Easy to play with a packed stadium watching and cheering, lot harder to get going in the silence that was this season and athletes had to be far more intrinsically motivated.  Not to mention all the lime light around campus usually seen by college athletes was absolutely gone bye bye.  So a lot harder for a college football to play and was for everyone.  

 

3 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

 

I call BS on implying poor work ethic or anything of that sort from opting out in the pandemic. I'm in medicine ( I don't want to dox further). No one will tell me with a straight face that sitting out during a COVID year and protecting your family's future earnings means you're not a team player.

Also this is the NFL. No one gives a **** about heisman voting. 

So DeVonta Smith's family was at less risk than Chase's?  I seriously doubt that one.  They were both at equal risk and what was the reason Chase sat out exactly?  Rashod Bateman for example was opting out because he literally has asthma and was obviously greatly at risk of getting this respiratory disease and having big time major issues from it.  He then decided to come back during the season once the Big Ten decided to play, played a few games then did opt out again near the end of the season and missed the last two games.  Gave a clear reason stated and why it was done.  Every single player in college football and every person on earth really have a risk of doing this or doing that.  Would love to know exactly why Chase sat out, sure my family thought it was best talk but more specifics would be nice.

[Ozzy]

17 minutes ago, INbengalfan said:

You just described Tim Tebow, without the COVID backdrop.

 

If you want to place Smith in spot 1 all by himself, fine.  He has plenty of citable evidence for the claim, but instead this comes off as a slight smear campaign downgrading Chase.  It isn't like Chase was the only player to opt out this season.  far from it.  Does it help Smith that he played?  Sure.  But for some reason,. because Chase played with a national championship team in 2019, you somehow equate that with chickening out.  I don't buy that logic.

So ignoring that Chase lost his QB, etc, you are saying that Chase drops behind Smith for not playing.  Do Sewell and Slater drop below Darrisaw?  He played, they didn't.  I could list many instances of this, but let's skip that.  My only question is do all of the opt out players drop on your board, or is it just Chase? Because if it's only Chase, then you have some sort of bias in the comparison of the two.

I already said, did Sage Surratt hurt himself by sitting out, yeah he probably did.  Did Sewell, probably not because no one over took him at his position, where DeVonta Smith you could argue did absolutely over take Chase this year with his amazing play.  Did Slater improve himself because he sat out?  I doubt it and I bet he wished he was part of that East Championship Northwestern team.  Lucky for him teams are desperate for OTs and he might be athletic enough to be picked pretty high.  Farley some have rated highly but again good for him because Wade did not play great this year and no other corner really stood out so lucky for him.  Holland, hard to say, same with Graham because for Holland the safety class is a great group so not sure anyone over took him but Moehring very well might.  Graham absolutely dropped or could because he sat, same with Breeze.  Unless all these guys really show out but will be hard to because there is no combine and I bet the pro day numbers will be hard to trust for many scouts if they cannot literally get that number themselves.  

I am comparing two players in Smith and Chase, and the disregard to the mental ability and competitiveness of DeVonta Smith is ridiculous.  As if none of that matters and all people see is a skinny receiver.  What the hell, but I guess have fun if that is all one can see in him.  

[THE DUKE]

2 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

So to call what DeVonta Smith did crap

Who exactly in this thread has said that?  Pointing out downplaying Chase does not equal crapping on Smith.  Smith had a great year, but there is certainly an argument that you can prefer Chase to Smith as an NFL draft prospect.  Age breakout and size clearly favor Chase.  Stats are fairly comparable.  The only one getting crapped on in this thread is Chase for opting out, which several other soon to be 1st rd picks did this year.

[Ozzy]

10 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Who exactly in this thread has said that?  Pointing out downplaying Chase does not equal crapping on Smith.  Smith had a great year, but there is certainly an argument that you can prefer Chase to Smith as an NFL draft prospect.  Age breakout and size clearly favor Chase.  Stats are fairly comparable.  The only one getting crapped on in this thread is Chase for opting out, which several other soon to be 1st rd picks did this year.

An individual specifically said that being a leader or a competitor has little to nothing to do with DeVonta Smith as a NFL prospect.  Yeah that would be a dig and I cannot even contemplate how that is a good way to go about anything.  Disregard character and will power, sure traits that are hard to rank but are wildly important.  This will be great though, especially if Smith gets this kind of flack in the NFL and doubt, will provide him with even more fuel as if he needs anymore.  

 

Mind you I was making these competitive comments and comments on how DeVonta Smith was a fighter on the field with a great work ethic about mid way into the season long before he won the Heisman or a National Championship.  And same commentary, oh so what Chase is better Smith is thin and skinny.  Ok sure.  

[THE DUKE]

List of "small" players who succeeded in the NFL.  I'm sure there are more, but this was the 10 best this author thought of.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/431278-size-isnt-everything-10-small-nfl-players-with-great-talent

Most of them are 3"-7" shorter than Smith, making them more compact and not as wiry.  Almost all of them weigh significantly more than Smith.  Desean Jackson is the closest comparable, and he's 3" shorter and 0-5 lbs more than Smith (who came to the senior bowl but refused to be measured and weighed, i.e. - he hasn't put on enough yet and wants to wait until the Alabama pro day).  Good players, yes, but not exactly a who's who on the NFL elite that all go top 5 in a redraft.

[INbengalfan]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I already said, did Sage Surratt hurt himself by sitting out, yeah he probably did.  Did Sewell, probably not because no one over took him at his position, where DeVonta Smith you could argue did absolutely over take Chase this year with his amazing play.  Did Slater improve himself because he sat out?  I doubt it and I bet he wished he was part of that East Championship Northwestern team.  Lucky for him teams are desperate for OTs and he might be athletic enough to be picked pretty high.  Farley some have rated highly but again good for him because Wade did not play great this year and no other corner really stood out so lucky for him.  Holland, hard to say, same with Graham because for Holland the safety class is a great group so not sure anyone over took him but Moehring very well might.  Graham absolutely dropped or could because he sat, same with Breeze.  Unless all these guys really show out but will be hard to because there is no combine and I bet the pro day numbers will be hard to trust for many scouts if they cannot literally get that number themselves.  

I am comparing two players in Smith and Chase, and the disregard to the mental ability and competitiveness of DeVonta Smith is ridiculous.  As if none of that matters and all people see is a skinny receiver.  What the hell, but I guess have fun if that is all one can see in him.  

It's not that you are promoting the mental toughness and competitiveness of Smith.  It's that you are ripping Chase for not having it, when none of us have one piece of evidence to support why he made the decision.

I have no problem with people ranking Chase as #1 based off of 2019 or Smith based off of 2020.  I just question your methodology when you criticize Chase for sitting out.  They are 1a and 1b for me.  If we take one, I'd taker Chase simply for the history with Burrow.  If I were the Dolphins, I'd take Smith for the same reason.  How other teams view it is up to them.

It's interesting that you don't view all opt outs as equal situations.  In the end, if you don't have a problem with Smith's size, great.  If others favor Chase for the size factor, I have no idea why you are so critical of them for thinking this way.  

[sammymvpknight]

2 hours ago, THE DUKE said:

Who exactly in this thread has said that?  Pointing out downplaying Chase does not equal crapping on Smith.  Smith had a great year, but there is certainly an argument that you can prefer Chase to Smith as an NFL draft prospect.  Age breakout and size clearly favor Chase.  Stats are fairly comparable.  The only one getting crapped on in this thread is Chase for opting out, which several other soon to be 1st rd picks did this year.

The difference between a good and great player often comes down to how much a player wants it. I'd be nervous about Chase. COVID could have just been an easy out. He knew that there was enough other guys opting out to make it acceptable and won't hurt his draft stock too much. 

I'm a medical provider. It would have to take a TON for me to take off MY job, or any job during my pursuit to medicine, because of COVID. Of course I have family members at risk...we all do. It would really take having one of my children or wife with immunodeficiency to consider stepping away. I don't know Chase's situation, and maybe he did have a very good reason to say that it's not worth it. But you'd be a fool if you don't think that his personality and drive won't be under the microscope. It absolutely should be...it will very likely be what determines his success. It's a question, and a significant question, that puts him in a higher risk category than Smith, in my opinion. So Smith is skinny? I can work with someone who is skinny but has the drive/work ethic to be elite. Smith and Chase are only comparable prospects if Chase has a very good reason for opting out this season.

[Scoundrel]

Chase had 20 touchdowns not 18. If you are going to argue stats at least get them correct. 

[Scoundrel]

If Smith is such this competitive monster why isn’t he competing in the Senior Bowl?