incognito_man Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 1 minute ago, Forge said: https://theathletic.com/1262373/2019/10/09/who-are-the-nfls-true-no-1-receivers-coaches-and-evaluators-weigh-in/ paywall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 17 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I haven't manipulated or cherry picked any statistics at all. He was clearly the #1 WR in Carolina through ~16 games in 2017 and 2018 as I've always stated, and he's clearly produced like an average #2 WR when healthy. Again. I've consistently said all of these things. It's literally putting numbers into words. And no, he clearly hasn't. You keep referencing his stats when healthy proof of him living up to this when healthy, but are doing so by comparing those to players who aren't given that same benefit. You keep calling him average to above average, but when you actually compare him the way you're trying to frame his stats (and it's extremely favorable to frame the stats of a guy who can't stay healthy solely by when he is healthy) to other players framed in that exact same way, he doesn't even come close to what you're claiming. When healthy, when receiving top targets on his team, he produces comparable to the 58th best WR in the league. What you're doing is 100% the definition of manipulated stats; taking stats from one data set and comparing it to a completely different data set that isn't analogous in order to get the result that you want. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Just now, pwny said: You keep referencing his stats when healthy proof of him living up to this when healthy I promise you cannot find a single spot I used it as "proof" of anything lol. Much less that he'll be a #1 going forward or something... I LITERALLY SAID I DON'T THINK HE'LL EVEN MAKE THE TEAM THIS YEAR. What are you even reading? 1 minute ago, pwny said: What you're doing is 100% the definition of manipulated stats; taking stats from one data set and comparing it to a completely different data set that isn't analogous in order to get the result that you want. I'm not doing that at all. I'm not comparing data setS. I'm looking at a single data set of receiving stats and simply pointing out where Funchess fell on those rankings in previous seasons... I'll say it one more time: Funchess is former #1 WR who produced like an average #2 WR and was signed for low-end #3 WR money with hopes he could get healthy and produce like a #2 WR again with a value signing. Keep inventing points I've never made. It's the theme of the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 1 hour ago, incognito_man said: In 2019 he was paid like an average #1 WR by Indianapolis on a 1 year deal. A follow up question to this. Given you're saying he was a #1 receiver directly prior to this signing, was this an appropriate value signing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, pwny said: A follow up question to this. Given you're saying he was a #1 receiver directly prior to this signing, was this an appropriate value signing? No, it was a bad signing by a team with more money to spend than they apparently knew what to do with. I much prefer the $1.5 million contract he got in GB a year later. He never produced like an average #1 WR. Why would you think I would think he should be paid like one? Edited May 14, 2021 by incognito_man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I promise you cannot find a single spot I used it as "proof" of anything lol. Really? 3 hours ago, incognito_man said: I have the stats on my side so I'm comfortable with "everyone" else being wrong as you frame it 3 hours ago, incognito_man said: He's literally an average to above average #2 and the evidence supports this conclusively. Pretty conclusive that you're using these stats as evidence. And what stats did you use? Turns out the only post where you referenced any stats at all was this one! 5 hours ago, incognito_man said: The joking about Funchess signing just shows a significant lack of understanding about who he is and what the actual role/production of a #2 WR is. "Average" #2 WRs in 2020 had a statline that looks like this: 56 rec, 739 yds, 4 TDs. Funchess would absolutely have been right in that range had he played and stayed healthy IMO. He surpassed that production on a per game basis his last two healthy seasons. Huh, the only stats you used are comparing the season stats to the per game stats of Funchess. Weird. I thought you didn't do this? 14 minutes ago, incognito_man said: I'm not doing that at all. I'm not comparing data setS. I'm looking at a single data set of receiving stats and simply pointing out where Funchess fell on those rankings in previous seasons... You're decidedly not. You're comparing season data for all other players, and then specifically comparing his per game stats to that. And you're specifically doing this because you know that your argument falls apart if you compare his season data to other players' season data or his per game stats to other WRs per game stats. You want to point out how good a guy who can't stay healthy could be if he was healthy? Cool! Fair point. Maybe he could stay healthy and it's a good thing. Then compare him to everyone when they're healthy; at which point he's a guy who got the target share of a WR1 who couldn't even produce like an average #3. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, pwny said: Really? Pretty conclusive that you're using these stats as evidence. And what stats did you use? Turns out the only post where you referenced any stats at all was this one! Huh, the only stats you used are comparing the season stats to the per game stats of Funchess. Weird. I thought you didn't do this? You're decidedly not. You're comparing season data for all other players, and then specifically comparing his per game stats to that. And you're specifically doing this because you know that your argument falls apart if you compare his season data to other players' season data or his per game stats to other WRs per game stats. You want to point out how good a guy who can't stay healthy could be if he was healthy? Cool! Fair point. Maybe he could stay healthy and it's a good thing. Then compare him to everyone when they're healthy; at which point he's a guy who got the target share of a WR1 who couldn't even produce like an average #3. Omg dude I literally posted the season average stats and said that IN MY OPINION Funchess would have been in that ballpark in 2020 GB of he had played You seem VERY confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Omg dude I literally posted the season average stats and said that IN MY OPINION Funchess would have been in that ballpark in 2020 GB of he had played You seem VERY confused. 3 hours ago, incognito_man said: He's literally an average to above average #2 and the evidence supports this conclusively. 3 hours ago, incognito_man said: I have the stats on my side so I'm comfortable with "everyone" else being wrong as you frame it The only one confused is you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 3 minutes ago, incognito_man said: Omg dude I literally posted the season average stats and said that IN MY OPINION Funchess would have been in that ballpark in 2020 GB of he had played You seem VERY confused. he really doesn’t though, not that he need me to say that for him. You’re just presenting awful arguments and then claiming no one else understands them? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 A @pwny and @GSUeagles14 tag team combo isn’t what I was expecting. But ok, let’s get weird. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said: A @pwny and @GSUeagles14 tag team combo isn’t what I was expecting. But ok, let’s get weird. lets get em @El Ramster! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Just now, Malfatron said: lets get em @El Ramster! @fumblebluntz @mtmmike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 51 minutes ago, incognito_man said: paywall It's basically a NFL people, GMs, coaches, etc naming a grand total of 11 receivers as "WR 1", and the bottom 5 of the list were only acknowledged as WR 1s by some of the people. Some snips: Quote “A No. 1 receiver to me is someone who can take over a game, someone you need to double-cover the whole game,” a general manager said. “Like Julio, you have to have a safety over him the whole game, and the minute you don’t, he is going to run by you and take it to the house.” Quote Another GM thought true No. 1 receivers should be able to win matchups on the perimeter while showing enough versatility to play effectively from the slot as well. “He has very good speed, at least,” this GM said. “Not necessarily always size, but the athletic ability and explosiveness to change a game.” And a third GM said true No. 1 receivers must be able to beat zone or man coverage. “To be a No. 1,” this GM added, “you have to be able to make contested catches because we have to be able to throw the ball to you when everybody knows it’s coming.” 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 Just now, LETSGOBROWNIES said: @fumblebluntz @mtmmike @pf9 and @cconocool!! up and atom! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
incognito_man Posted May 14, 2021 Share Posted May 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said: A @pwny and @GSUeagles14 tag team combo isn’t what I was expecting. But ok, let’s get weird. I know I'm fine when that thing agrees with those arguing against me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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