2022 DRAFT THREAD - QB’s Wanted

[turtle28]

5 hours ago, lavar703 said:

They’re going to have to do something about QB. Move up or whatever. They can’t go into next season with what we have unless Taylor absolutely kills it the rest of the way. I hate the idea of forcing the issue but I’m also of the opinion there’s 2-3 good QBs in this draft. 

Yep, we’ve put ourselves in this position as a franchise unless, as you said Taylor absolutely plays great the next 3 months which is possible, but to me he’s got to be even better than he has been. Don’t get me wrong he’s fun to watch and exciting but he’s had some poor decisions and some bad throws in each game that make you scratch your head and we’re lucky he didn’t leave the NYG & ATL games with multiple picks like he did in Buffalo.

I just remember us killing past QBs for making those same mistakes over the last 15 years or so but Taylor isn’t getting those same question marks bc he’s so likeable and we’ve won two of the games. Still, the film don’t lie.

Edited October 7, 2021 by turtle28

[turtle28]

4 hours ago, offbyone said:

My feeling too.  This class looks more questionable than last year's and consistently a bunch of undersized guys.

Last year we decided to go the patient route and not draft a qb.  We had an opportunity with Fields and decided not to.  The worst thing we can do this offseason is force it.  I mean, if we want an undersized qb who has some physical limitations, we already have one of those don't we?   

But this is the WFT fan base.  The grass is always greener with us.

I don’t think any of the guys we are talking about taking in the top 10 have physical limitations. Corral, Howell, Rattler, Ridder & Willis may not be 6’4 plus as QBs but they all have strong arms, definitely stronger than Heinicke’s arms. We’ve obviously seen guys their size of smaller come in the league and light it up even as rookies so, while I question if any of them are as good as prospects as the top 5 of last years class, that doesn’t mean that they’re not good prospects and won’t develop into franchise QBs.

Actually, I stand corrected Desmond Ridder is 6’4, I question his accuracy some though. He’s very athletic has a strong arm and makes good decisions, I just question his accuracy. Until late in the game vs Notre Dame he was under 60% but when I was watching that game he also had some drops which attributed to him being under 60%.

Edited October 7, 2021 by turtle28

[turtle28]

This is obviously extremely early for the draft, but at this point Walter Football has Sam Howell falling to us in round 2. He also has Desmond Ridder going a few picks infront of us to the Steelers.
 

So, if it holds that those two don’t blow the world on fire the rest of the year, they may fall to us in round 2. I could see each going in the second half of round 1, and if we end up in teens next year in the draft - which I doubt given our schedule & the way our D is playing - we may want to take one of them.

In round 1, Walter had us taking Rasheed Walker, the LT from Penn State, which also makes a lot of sense for us. Leno has been playing pretty well, but obviously he’s not getting any younger.

https://walterfootball.com/draft2022_2.php

[TheGreeK1973]

I have to agree with Turtle, our biggest issue right now is fixing this Defense which is a mess.  Imagine if they were playing like last year end of the season, right now we are at least 3-1 and a very comfortable one at that that has us ranked top 10 probably.  

[lavar703]

7 hours ago, offbyone said:

My feeling too.  This class looks more questionable than last year's and consistently a bunch of undersized guys.

Last year we decided to go the patient route and not draft a qb.  We had an opportunity with Fields and decided not to.  The worst thing we can do this offseason is force it.  I mean, if we want an undersized qb who has some physical limitations, we already have one of those don't we?   

But this is the WFT fan base.  The grass is always greener with us.

It has nothing to do with the grass being greener. Drafting a QB is all based on how Taylor plays the rest of the way. This all doesn’t take into account Rivera potentially putting Fitz back in regardless of how Taylor is playing. That is probably still in play which I’m sure would piss a lot of people off.
 

We all know what Fitz is so if Taylor starts to regress and looks more like an undrafted free agent then yes, they’ll have to make a move to get a QB. You can’t go into year 3 of a build without your QB. Rivera doesn’t have infinite time especially after he foolishly chased a bad division in year one and set this thing back a year at least. 

[Thaiphoon]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

It has nothing to do with the grass being greener. Drafting a QB is all based on how Taylor plays the rest of the way. This all doesn’t take into account Rivera potentially putting Fitz back in regardless of how Taylor is playing. That is probably still in play which I’m sure would piss a lot of people off.
 

We all know what Fitz is so if Taylor starts to regress and looks more like an undrafted free agent then yes, they’ll have to make a move to get a QB. You can’t go into year 3 of a build without your QB. Rivera doesn’t have infinite time especially after he foolishly chased a bad division in year one and set this thing back a year at least. 

I was told repeatedly that going to the playoffs was going to be a positive move for the team and to want us to not win the division last year meant I wasn't a true fan of the team. 

Weird.

 

That being said, you're correct. By Y3 of the rebuild, you had better have found your QB (even if you just drafted him that offseason between Y2 and Y3). If you haven't, you're back at square one.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, TheGreeK1973 said:

I have to agree with Turtle, our biggest issue right now is fixing this Defense which is a mess.  Imagine if they were playing like last year end of the season, right now we are at least 3-1 and a very comfortable one at that that has us ranked top 10 probably.  

The thing with the defense though is if we are going to go with defense again in round 1 of the draft, what position do you take?
 

We’re stacked on the DL. We just drafted Jamin Davis to be our MLB & we have Holcomb. They’ll play 100% of the snaps on defense for years to come probably. We have two corners making $10 mil a year and they’re under 30 plus, we have Juice who doesn’t look awful but needs to improve some for sure.
 

I guess it would be a DB? Preferably a FS with elite traits like Notre Dame’s Kyle Hamilton?

I mean just think, if we aren’t going QB in round 1, the only other position besides FS I’d say is a huge round 1 need is a LT for the long term. I think Cosmi should stay at RT.
 

I do think we should re-sign Leno after this year & Lucas if we can, but they’re both 30, their extensions should be a 2 or 3 year deal IMO. We should be taking a LT in round 1 as well if they’re the BPA but I guess if it’s not QB, I could definitely see us taking Kyle Hamilton if he’s available.

Edited October 7, 2021 by turtle28

[turtle28]

35 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I was told repeatedly that going to the playoffs was going to be a positive move for the team and to want us to not win the division last year meant I wasn't a true fan of the team. 

Weird.

 

That being said, you're correct. By Y3 of the rebuild, you had better have found your QB (even if you just drafted him that offseason between Y2 and Y3). If you haven't, you're back at square one.

[Troublez]

2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

The thing with the defense though is if we are going to go with defense again in round 1 of the draft, what position do you take?

Com'on @turtle28 you take BPA.... on either side of the ball. 

[lavar703]

16 minutes ago, Troublez said:

Com'on @turtle28 you take BPA.... on either side of the ball. 

Well we didn’t do that this past draft. 

[ovfd55]

9 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Well we didn’t do that this past draft. 

In the coaches eye we did
Also why coaches shouldn't have roster control cause they always see the big fast strong guys as someone they can get the best out of which isn't always the case.

But I am honestly excited to see how Jamin plays once he finds a groove being on the field more 

[MikeT14]

13 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

Well we didn’t do that this past draft. 

Honestly, without using much hindsight, I don't think we came far from that either. JOK sure. There aren't THAT many people after our picks that I'm upset over, nor was I at the time. Bates definitely, but that's all the way to the 4th. 

[lavar703]

1 minute ago, MikeT14 said:

Honestly, without using much hindsight, I don't think we came far from that either. JOK sure. There aren't THAT many people after our picks that I'm upset over, nor was I at the time. Bates definitely, but that's all the way to the 4th. 

I mean, what about Cheeseman and BSJ? I know that’s probably nitpicking but they had to be considered reaches. I still think Davis was a big reach. Without his pre draft testing there’s no way he was a first round pick. I would feel more comfortable about the pick if he didn’t look completely lost out there. 

[offbyone]

4 hours ago, lavar703 said:

It has nothing to do with the grass being greener. Drafting a QB is all based on how Taylor plays the rest of the way. This all doesn’t take into account Rivera potentially putting Fitz back in regardless of how Taylor is playing. That is probably still in play which I’m sure would piss a lot of people off.
 

We all know what Fitz is so if Taylor starts to regress and looks more like an undrafted free agent then yes, they’ll have to make a move to get a QB. You can’t go into year 3 of a build without your QB. Rivera doesn’t have infinite time especially after he foolishly chased a bad division in year one and set this thing back a year at least. 

Drafting a top qb because you sucked so bad that you got a top 3 pick is one option, but teams get qbs just as frequently by trading up for them.  We could have traded up and drafted Fields on the cheap as you argued for, we just chose not to.   We could have drafted a qb the year before with the #2 pick, but we took chase young.  That was our chance to draft a heralded qb during the rebuild without trading up.  It isn't happening again.  We will need to trade up and go get one or try our luck on a less vaunted guy lower down the board.

Not to mention, as you well know,  more than half these qbs turn into busts.  You don't just go get your qb.  You roll the dice of your organization on a qb hoping with fingers and toes crossed that luck is with you.  Rivera was hesitant to do that last year.  I don't see him doing it this year on this group.  San Francisco traded up this year for a very high ceiling guy.  I don't see any of the 2022 class as high ceiling guys.  Most of them are so short they can't even touch the ceiling if they jump.  Maybe if you put Taylor Heinecke on one of their shoulders he will be able to touch the ceiling.  

[e16bball]

3 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

I mean, what about Cheeseman and BSJ? I know that’s probably nitpicking but they had to be considered reaches. I still think Davis was a big reach. Without his pre draft testing there’s no way he was a first round pick. I would feel more comfortable about the pick if he didn’t look completely lost out there. 

As I’ve said many times now, he was already in both Kiper’s and McShay’s 1st rounds before his Pro Day. He was pick #17 in Kiper’s last mock before his Pro Day. I feel that almost anyone who watched his 2020 film would have been turned on to him as a potential 1st rounder.

It’s absolutely true that he rocketed up the board from absolute no-name to 1st rounder based on a 6-month span from about September 2020 to February 2021. But it’s an exaggeration to say it was only because of the 6-hour workout that he dominated. That really undersells the quality of his play from 2020. Zach Wilson and Mac Jones also shot up from total non-entities to top picks based pretty much solely on their 2020 play, and I didn’t hear a lot of talk that they were big reaches.

He does look lost a good bit of the time right now. I think that’s because he is lost. Like I’ve tried to say, it’s really hard to transition to the modern NFL at the MLB position. Really good players have really struggled with it, even blue-chip guys with long track records. Pretty much all of them. It’s going to be a multi-year process. The same way we wouldn’t bail on Zach Wilson because he’s been mostly dreadful so far, because we know how hard it is to play QB in the NFL, it’s going to take patience with Davis. It’s going to be frustrating for this first year (or more), and I’m saying that as one of his biggest fans. 

It’s going to be doubly frustrating because we’re going to be seeing all the splash plays and hearing all the crowing about Parsons and JOK. And it’s going to be tempting to think “those guys are balling out and our guy is playing in quicksand, he’s a bust and we blew it.” But you have to keep in mind the degree of difficulty. Neither Parsons nor JOK has ever been asked to be a pure MLB, and they aren’t doing that now. They’re playing outside, where they can play half the field and just be moving forward a lot of the time. That’s many times easier to do for a young player than wearing all the hats that a true 4-3 MLB has to wear. It’s kinda like comparing a slot receiver to a TE, in terms of instant impact.