jrry32 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 minute ago, Rich7sena said: Safe doesn't mean he's going to be a slam dunk success. It means I think he's the likeliest to be productive in the NFL from this class. I think he's right there with Pickett and Corral as a prospect, and I think he's the safest bet to produce--especially early--despite not necessary having the highest upside. I feel like if you're drafting Malik Willis in the first round to produce early, you're probably not going to end up satisfied with the pick in the end. Quote Being as good as he is at running means he doesn't have to be good at reading defenses to be successful (i.e. Hurts level success). Willis would enter the league being one of the most skilled runners at the position, maybe even at any position, while also having on of the most impressive arms. I think it's pretty easy to imagine an offense being tailored around that skillset, and him being at least productive early on in the NFL. That's a massive overstatement. Elite runner for a QB? Sure. Elite runner for any position? Nah. And honestly, I'm not a big Jalen Hurts fan. I think he's a guy you make do with. Quote And, I would not call those examples "as of late" or necessarily good examples against my argument. A bunch of those guys (RGIII, Mariota, Young) had at least moderate success that their pocket QB counterparts did not. I also would consider their skillsets to be pretty disparate from each other and from Willis. And, when I refer to running QB, I mean a QB who's ability as a running stands out regardless of position (e.g. Jackson, Hurts, Murray). Athletic doesn't necessarily mean running QB in this context. And, I don't evaluate those types of players the same way I would a non-running QB. Of the players you listed, I would only consider Pryor and White as running QBs--and I believe neither were as prominent of prospects as Willis will be (White wasn't even drafted as a QB, if I remember correctly). I don't think any of the other players, had they played another position, would have stood out to me as being particularly impressive runners. I feel like Lamar Jackson is probably the best player to point to for Willis. A lot of people doubted Lamar. But Willis doesn't seem as advanced to me as Lamar did coming out (or as gifted of a runner). But yes, I get your point. You might be able to put together a unique offense for Willis and have some success in the short term. Me? I'd try to look more long term with him. The challenge for us armchair scouts is that we don't get to sit down with him and get a feel for how well he knows the game and the sort of mental ceiling he has. But yeah, he seems like a worthwhile risk on Day 2 to me. If I knew more about the mental game and was confident in the potential there, I could justify taking him in the first round. But I don't have that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I feel like if you're drafting Malik Willis in the first round to produce early, you're probably not going to end up satisfied with the pick in the end. By my estimation, that is the case for every QB in this draft. Quote That's a massive overstatement. Elite runner for a QB? Sure. Elite runner for any position? Nah. And honestly, I'm not a big Jalen Hurts fan. I think he's a guy you make do with. I'm not a big Hurts fan, either, but I can't deny that he has been productive and QBed of a functional NFL offense. I think that's due entirely to his ability as a runner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 5 hours ago, jrry32 said: The Browns are averaging 144.9 rushing yards per game and 5.1 yards per carry this year. Last year, the Browns averaged 148.4 rushing yards per game and 4.8 yards per carry. Have you considered alternate causes? Like Mayfield playing through a significant shoulder injury? Besides being doppelgängers, Howell and Baker are similar in that they struggle to get past their first read. That's the biggest knock on Mayfield...he doesn't really read defenses. When he's rolling, his arm talent, accuracy and the scheme can more or less make up for it...but when he's not, he's missing all kinds of reads and throws. Mayfield's more talented than Dalton was but he's not as smart. Howell is lost when his first read isn't there...it's why he's run so much this year. He's a better runner than Mayfield was at Oklahoma but I don't think he'll be able to successfully run around as much as a pro without damaging himself...especially when he thinks he's the Juggernaut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: Besides being doppelgängers, Howell and Baker are similar in that they struggle to get past their first read. That's the biggest knock on Mayfield...he doesn't really read defenses. When he's rolling, his arm talent, accuracy and the scheme can more or less make up for it...but when he's not, he's missing all kinds of reads and throws. Mayfield's more talented than Dalton was but he's not as smart. Howell is lost when his first read isn't there...it's why he's run so much this year. He's a better runner than Mayfield was at Oklahoma but I don't think he'll be able to successfully run around as much as a pro without damaging himself...especially when he thinks he's the Juggernaut. I didn't see that at all. North Carolina's offense can be a bit simplistic in terms of the reads, but Howell definitely put plenty of film out there of him making multiple reads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Rich7sena said: By my estimation, that is the case for every QB in this draft. I'm not a big Hurts fan, either, but I can't deny that he has been productive and QBed of a functional NFL offense. I think that's due entirely to his ability as a runner. I think if that's how you see it, you just don't take a QB in Round 1. There's a lot of talent in other spots. Go grab a bridge QB and grab a lottery ticket outside the first round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, jrry32 said: I didn't see that at all. North Carolina's offense can be a bit simplistic in terms of the reads, but Howell definitely put plenty of film out there of him making multiple reads. I've seen it some but I'm emphasizing that I think Howell processes pretty slowly. I think it's the biggest weakness of his game. Have to say it's why that comp you made to Romo is really puzzling to me. Romo's ability to process and read was the best thing he had going. The best thing Howell has is a big arm with accuracy and touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: I've seen it some but I'm emphasizing that I think Howell processes pretty slowly. I think it's the biggest weakness of his game. Have to say it's why that comp you made to Romo is really puzzling to me. Romo's ability to process and read was the best thing he had going. The best thing Howell has is a big arm with accuracy and touch. I didn't see that. Felt the processing was fine. I was more concerned by the lack of pocket presence and poise under pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Felt the processing was fine. I was more concerned by the lack of pocket presence and poise under pressure. I'd say those are married. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: I'd say those are married. They're not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 I'm really curious, as I'm sure many are, to see how Ridder performs today. I think he's has the most upside in this class. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnarok Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Rich7sena said: I'm really curious, as I'm sure many are, to see how Ridder performs today. I think he's has the most upside in this class. I can guarantee I'm going to use this game as my biggest factor in how I view him as a prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Rich7sena said: I'm really curious, as I'm sure many are, to see how Ridder performs today. I think he's has the most upside in this class. Idk about most upside, but low key a potential 1st rounder imo. Big game indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 31, 2021 Share Posted December 31, 2021 Well,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
INbengalfan Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 2 hours ago, .Buzz said: Well,,, Cincy's line clearly dominated by Bama. maybe with a little bit of time.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 1, 2022 Share Posted January 1, 2022 49 minutes ago, INbengalfan said: Cincy's line clearly dominated by Bama. maybe with a little bit of time.......... I only watched bits and pieces of the game, but it seemed like half the time Ridder dropped back his pass was tipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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