pwny Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, JonStark said: I actually did ask my gay sister-in-law about it because I wanted to make sure I wasn't making her uncomfortable and she gave me the are you serious look and appropriately said "I don't care which phrase you do" with a smirk. But here's the thing. She doesn't care. But others do. If you ask two people which of type of movie they want to watch tonight, and one says "I'd really like to watch a comedy, I don't much care for horror" and the other says "I don't care if we watch horror or a comedy, either is fine with me" it's pretty easy to figure out that you should pick a comedy to watch, and not just say "well my sister is okay with watching a horror film". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrDrew Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 I find it really sad that so many people in this world would rather work hard to be right instead of just being kind. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 4 minutes ago, MWil23 said: English is a frustrating language. I don't care means "I don't have a preference". It also means contempt/lack of empathy in certain context. (I don't care that *insert bad thing that happened to you*) It also means general to extreme indifference and/or apathy. Exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, JonStark said: It's more frustrating when everything you say gets put under a microscope and people try to tell you what you meant when you said it. Literally no one has tried to tell you what you mean. Please stop accusing us of accusing you of a motive that we aren't ascribing to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 2 minutes ago, pwny said: But here's the thing. She doesn't care. But others do. If you ask two people which of type of movie they want to watch tonight, and one says "I'd really like to watch a comedy, I don't much care for horror" and the other says "I don't care if we watch horror or a comedy, either is fine with me" it's pretty easy to figure out that you should pick a comedy to watch, and not just say "well my sister is okay with watching a horror film". So why is "I don't care if a person is gay or straight, either is fine with me" not an ok thing to say? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Malfatron said: genuine question for who it pertains to: specifically why do you want phrase it as "I dont care"? One implies general indifference or lack of preference, or perhaps contempt (tone and context matter). One implies overall support (per your earlier question). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, JonStark said: It's more frustrating when everything you say gets put under a microscope and people try to tell you what you meant when you said it. But also, it been clarified by multiple people that just because you don’t care that you’re friend/family member is gay, doesn’t mean you don’t sympathize with their struggles and inequality. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 There's a difference between intended meaning to the speaker, and the received meaning by the audience. It's an important nuance that people (including myself, quite often) miss In this case.. "I don't care" can mean a few different things. It can mean I truly see the things as being of equal value, and therefore it doesn't matter to me I just want to disregard the topic, and therefore I don't want to talk about it A lot of times people think they are doing the first, but are actually doing the 2nd. The 1st results in positive affirmation at best, or just avoiding the subject at the least. The 2nd results in dismissal of the topic. Dismissing someone sharing something personal, is rarely the correct approach. At the risk of bringing a different topic in, its the difference between "BLM" and "ALM". If your words of attempted inclusivity (whether genuine or not), actually serve as exclusive and dismissive, then I think its worth the self reflection of what you are REALLY saying, vs what you THINK you are saying 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 22 minutes ago, pwny said: Yes. Because you said you reflected on your compulsion to argue about a phrase regarding its use towards marginalized people. Im not arguing it. I am in agreement that other phrases are better suited. I dont understand why you and Flux keep attempting to box me into arguing that point. Quote Ergo, your answer reflects that you believe society is sensitive regarding the topic of phrases related to marginalized people. Again, didnt say that. I think society is sensitive to many words. Quote Ergo, a response to that answer would reflect both aspects of how marginalized people view it, as well as the non-marginalized people who take up allyship over that. Ergo - I wasnt speaking to this point at all, which is why I asked for Flux to please not put words (or agendas) into my mouth. Edited June 23, 2021 by Matts4313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Just now, JonStark said: So why is "I don't care if a person is gay or straight, either is fine with me" not an ok thing to say? LGBT people in this thread: I don't like horror You: If some people don't mind horror or comedy, why can't we just watch a horror movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 3 minutes ago, JonStark said: So why is "I don't care if a person is gay or straight, either is fine with me" not an ok thing to say? Because if its the truth, then it wouldn't have been said in the first place in response to someone sharing a personal thing about themselves Either positive, or nothing would be better.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, pwny said: Literally no one has tried to tell you what you mean. Please stop accusing us of accusing you of a motive that we aren't ascribing to you. Thats simply not true. There is no point in rehashing 30 pages, but many people have called other "bigots", "pricks", "insensitive", "oppressive", "regressive", "wrong", "99% a cover up for hatred" etc for saying a phrase that was simply misinterpreted or frowned upon phraseology. It is a total pot-kettle situation, as I said. I think both "sides" should, and probably have, learned a lot about how to phrase things better. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonStark Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 (edited) 6 minutes ago, pwny said: LGBT people in this thread: I don't like horror You: If some people don't mind horror or comedy, why can't we just watch a horror movie This analogy doesn't translate. By your logic, you think horror should be done away with. Well my sister-in-law likes horror. 5 minutes ago, Tk3 said: Because if its the truth, then it wouldn't have been said in the first place in response to someone sharing a personal thing about themselves Either positive, or nothing would be better.... You're right, and I've admitted that this discussion had no reason to be brought up in this thread. But because it was brought up, I'd like to know why that question is not ok to say. Edited June 23, 2021 by JonStark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwny Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Exactly my point. I'm gonna respond with this again because you seem to be ignoring it Remember when you got really mad at me because I made a joke about some stuff you were going through? I never intended to be hurtful or cause harm, but the joke went too far and you got hurt. I could have sat there and told you "well it's a joke. And the definition of a joke is to be funny and not to be harmful, and I make jokes that are much worse than that with @Glen all the time and he never got offended." But what did I do instead? I apologized, explained my intent wasn't to be harmful and then promised to not make even a tiny joke about that topic again. You didn't need @Adrenaline_Flux to defend why I made the joke and how I actually care about people and explain to you that I didn't mean any harm because he's said jokes that are similar and he wasn't intending to be a jerk, you just needed me to acknowledge you and how it hurt you (empathy) and commit to not doing it again (equity). That's all we're asking here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSUeagles14 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 5 minutes ago, Tk3 said: Because if its the truth, then it wouldn't have been said in the first place in response to someone sharing a personal thing about themselves Either positive, or nothing would be better.... ”I don’t care that you’re gay man, you’re a great friend and I love you for it” seems pretty darn positive to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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