Jets 2022 General Talk

[NYJets4716]

18 minutes ago, Rich51 said:

I’d all but given up on Mims but according to this article he’s been impressive. 
https://clutchpoints.com/jets-news-denzel-mims-is-so-hot-hes-ready-melt-bust-label/

If Mims produces for us, that is just gravy.  

Players develop at different rates, Mims rookie season he had injuries, then had some weird things year 2. The Jets aren't in a position where they absolutely need Mims to be good, but if he can show them something to stick around it adds more to the group. He has the talent and length, we'll see what happens. 

 

It'll be hard for him to get a lot of looks, as we are deep at WR. If Davis gets injured, that would be the best time for him to step up.  Berrios is going to get looks because he does a lot of different things. Wilson and Moore are dynamic guys who can do multiple things. Its a better situation than we been in, actual talent on the team. 

 

The vibe around this team right now, I think we are super close to being good. I get 2009 vibes with them, but honestly this could be more special because Douglas is building a team that could be good year in year out, not just be good for 2 years then bomb out. All of that rides on Zach Wilson of course, we need this guy to break out. He has so much potential and talent that it will be really frustrating if he doesn't. 

Edited May 8, 2022 by NYJets4716

[KingOfNewYork]

Saleh not getting any pressure from anyone all I see is it’s all on Zach. 

[NJC33]

11 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Saleh not getting any pressure from anyone all I see is it’s all on Zach. 

He's such a 'likable' guy, but yea, made plenty of mistakes last season. I was (and still am) a big fan of his CEO approach, but there's no excuse for finishing dead last defensively. Talent aside, the basis for good coaching should always be collective output vs. individual talent -- if a coach can't put a product on the field better than the individual talent, than his schemes, play-calling, game plan (etc) aren't adding value. I'm glad he's not running the defense, but at the end of the day, accountability still falls on him.

[KingOfNewYork]

10 minutes ago, NJC33 said:

He's such a 'likable' guy, but yea, made plenty of mistakes last season. I was (and still am) a big fan of his CEO approach, but there's no excuse for finishing dead last defensively. Talent aside, the basis for good coaching should always be collective output vs. individual talent -- if a coach can't put a product on the field better than the individual talent, than his schemes, play-calling, game plan (etc) aren't adding value. I'm glad he's not running the defense, but at the end of the day, accountability still falls on him.

He’s definitely skating by any criticism it’s like him and Zach are the opposite of Gase and Darnold. 

[xrade]

1 hour ago, NJC33 said:

but there's no excuse for finishing dead last defensively. Talent aside, the basis for good coaching should always be collective output vs. individual talent -- if a coach can't put a product on the field better than the individual talent, than his schemes, play-calling, game plan (etc) aren't adding value

Actually lack of talent is the best excuse. You can point fingers at Saleh for not adjusting his scheme (even though he did just that with the CB’s), but what would that have gained?  We all knew the D would not be good. Was Saleh supposed to develop a D to suit guys he knew were not be here for the long haul?  No, he developed his scheme that he is familiar with knowing that the guys that were going to be here would have a year under their belt and it would help the new guys coming in.

The talent we now have lowers any excuses on D. Sure they still have to develop, but at least now we have talent and should see tangible improvement. 

[Bobby816]

I think given our situation last year, they both kind of got a pass. Saleh as a 1st year HC with a rookie QB was given a long leash. And Wilson was given a long leash as well being a rookie, especially with our WRs out most the time. And the reason for optimism was how we finished the season. Wilson looked more promising and the defense wasn't awful either. We were at least competitive even with a lack of talent. The one who impressed me the most was LaFleur. I was very critical of him to start out the season and actually still stand by that. I think he didn't simplify things enough for Wilson and that's why he had so many mistakes early. When Wilson got injured, is seems that made him change things and it helped out the offense as a whole. And luckily he stayed that way even when Wilson returned. And I think he found his groove for the last 2/3 of the season. Which is good. He now has as far as talented is concerned weapons everywhere and an OL. So he can unleash anything and everything. I think if he can call plays like he did to finish the season last year, we will be in good shape. And I expect that.

The larger picture which will be a nice problem to have... is that he does so good that he leaves for a HC job in 2023. And now only after 2 seasons Wilson will have a new OC and system. We don't really have any guys in house that can just be moved up into that role (maybe Calabrese or Benton?) and us run the same system. Benton is an OL coach that seems to not really care to be a HC. And IMO it might be too soon to make Calabrese an OC. 

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

I think given our situation last year, they both kind of got a pass. Saleh as a 1st year HC with a rookie QB was given a long leash. And Wilson was given a long leash as well being a rookie, especially with our WRs out most the time. And the reason for optimism was how we finished the season. Wilson looked more promising and the defense wasn't awful either. We were at least competitive even with a lack of talent. The one who impressed me the most was LaFleur. I was very critical of him to start out the season and actually still stand by that. I think he didn't simplify things enough for Wilson and that's why he had so many mistakes early. When Wilson got injured, is seems that made him change things and it helped out the offense as a whole. And luckily he stayed that way even when Wilson returned. And I think he found his groove for the last 2/3 of the season. Which is good. He now has as far as talented is concerned weapons everywhere and an OL. So he can unleash anything and everything. I think if he can call plays like he did to finish the season last year, we will be in good shape. And I expect that.

The larger picture which will be a nice problem to have... is that he does so good that he leaves for a HC job in 2023. And now only after 2 seasons Wilson will have a new OC and system. We don't really have any guys in house that can just be moved up into that role (maybe Calabrese or Benton?) and us run the same system. Benton is an OL coach that seems to not really care to be a HC. And IMO it might be too soon to make Calabrese an OC. 

The structure for the new OC will have Calabrese stepping in for LaFluer. Saleh will also always run the Shanahan scheme but obviously guys will put their own twists on it but if Zach is good to get an OC a HC job then he should be fine.

[NYJets4716]

I haven't seen anything yet that makes me want to fire Saleh. I really like the guy and I enjoy the vibes we get from the team with him. I hope he does well because he is someone I can actually root for. Unlike Gase who I hated the entire time he was here. 

Saleh probably had the most difficult coaching job in the NFL last season. He was asked to coach a team that had rookies starting everywhere and also had massive injuries.   What I liked was I saw players develop under Saleh. Unlike with Gase who they regressed. 

Saleh isn't the kind of coach who is going to be calling the plays, he is more of the CEO and leader. He has been running a competent team so far.  I question the DC still, but the lack of talent might have had a huge impact. I hope we see a significant improvement at defense. I like our OC, I think Mike Lafleur is a bright mind. 

 

[NJC33]

21 hours ago, xrade said:

Actually lack of talent is the best excuse. You can point fingers at Saleh for not adjusting his scheme (even though he did just that with the CB’s), but what would that have gained?  We all knew the D would not be good. Was Saleh supposed to develop a D to suit guys he knew were not be here for the long haul?  No, he developed his scheme that he is familiar with knowing that the guys that were going to be here would have a year under their belt and it would help the new guys coming in.

The talent we now have lowers any excuses on D. Sure they still have to develop, but at least now we have talent and should see tangible improvement. 

So you’re arguing he produced at a level relative to the talent he had available? I.e last in talent, last in production — meaning he wasn’t able to elevate the pieces at his disposal. His scheme, philosophy, approach (etc.) did nothing for the bottom line. 

Again, I think the best way to evaluate coaching is by looking at production relative to talent. If you’re 32nd in talent and 32nd in production, objectively, there was no value added from a coaching perspective. I’ve used Shanahan as an example in the past — he’s produced competent offenses, with less than competent players. Not saying the Jets should’ve been even remotely good defensively, but I expect a great defensive coach elevate the group collectively. Since we finished dead last defensively, that didn’t happen last season.

[drew39k]

On 5/8/2022 at 3:34 PM, Rich51 said:

I’d all but given up on Mims but according to this article he’s been impressive. 
https://clutchpoints.com/jets-news-denzel-mims-is-so-hot-hes-ready-melt-bust-label/

I want mims to succeed but to me, that article feels more like fluff trade bait type hype than anything.

[KingOfNewYork]

3 hours ago, NYJets4716 said:

I haven't seen anything yet that makes me want to fire Saleh. I really like the guy and I enjoy the vibes we get from the team with him. I hope he does well because he is someone I can actually root for. Unlike Gase who I hated the entire time he was here. 

Saleh probably had the most difficult coaching job in the NFL last season. He was asked to coach a team that had rookies starting everywhere and also had massive injuries.   What I liked was I saw players develop under Saleh. Unlike with Gase who they regressed. 

Saleh isn't the kind of coach who is going to be calling the plays, he is more of the CEO and leader. He has been running a competent team so far.  I question the DC still, but the lack of talent might have had a huge impact. I hope we see a significant improvement at defense. I like our OC, I think Mike Lafleur is a bright mind. 

 

Yeah none of this is true. Saleh didn’t do anything good last year, not a single instance of “great decision by our head coach” 

[KingOfNewYork]

2 hours ago, NJC33 said:

So you’re arguing he produced at a level relative to the talent he had available? I.e last in talent, last in production — meaning he wasn’t able to elevate the pieces at his disposal. His scheme, philosophy, approach (etc.) did nothing for the bottom line. 

Again, I think the best way to evaluate coaching is by looking at production relative to talent. If you’re 32nd in talent and 32nd in production, objectively, there was no value added from a coaching perspective. I’ve used Shanahan as an example in the past — he’s produced competent offenses, with less than competent players. Not saying the Jets should’ve been even remotely good defensively, but I expect a great defensive coach elevate the group collectively. Since we finished dead last defensively, that didn’t happen last season.

This. He added nothing to the team. Reminiscent of his first two seasons as a DC just God awful production. Talent increased and he suddenly got better as a DC but every coach needs and deserves to coach talented players(except Gase he has to produce with bums or else)

Saleh has pressure this year because Douglas has done an amazing job adding top end talent and depth. I don’t see a clear weakness on the roster though there are question marks in terms of our run defense not improving on paper. 

He needs to create quality game plans and have these guys ready to execute. We should float around .500 this season. 

[ekill08x]

Joe Douglas has done his job. If this team doesn't ascend in the next two years then it is on the coach and QB. If we fire JD after how much young talent he has gotten us then we simply are lost as a franchise and will be in limbo for years.

[NYJets4716]

4 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

Yeah none of this is true. Saleh didn’t do anything good last year, not a single instance of “great decision by our head coach” 

Actually it is very true, if you want to disagree fine. But asking a HC to start rookies at pretty much every position is usually asking for failure, then having the amount of injuries that we had on top of that makes it impossible to evaluate. So you can say that he is a utter disaster,  but that is just your opinion based on just going off of wins and losses. There is not a single HC that would have had a winning record with the garbage we had on the field last season.  

[NYJets4716]

7 minutes ago, KingOfNewYork said:

This. He added nothing to the team. Reminiscent of his first two seasons as a DC just God awful production. Talent increased and he suddenly got better as a DC but every coach needs and deserves to coach talented players(except Gase he has to produce with bums or else)

Saleh has pressure this year because Douglas has done an amazing job adding top end talent and depth. I don’t see a clear weakness on the roster though there are question marks in terms of our run defense not improving on paper. 

He needs to create quality game plans and have these guys ready to execute. We should float around .500 this season. 

If you really rather have Gase than Saleh, you are crazy.