blkwdw13 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 12 minutes ago, Soggust said: It sounds to me like you guys are just content with taking a year to build around Fields, and I get it. I'm not saying you are wrong, per se, I just don't understand what the expectations of Fields are to make people confident in him going forward. Because, quite frankly, Justin Fields improving might be the worst thing that can happen in the long run, imo. Because unless he produces two years of healthy MVP Lamar, how confident are we really going to be when it comes time to resign/commit to him? And if they aren't going to resign/commit, will they be in a position to take a top QB like they are now? Especially if they build a better team around him? It sucks to dump talent, I get it. And maybe I'm just objectively wrong, that's okay. This just inherently feels to me like a "potential gets people fired" scenario. I don't see the Bears (as an organization) picking top 5 in perpetuity like some other franchises, so it seems like it would be time to capitalize on the pick. So a QB improving is the worst thing going forward, yeah I think no one will ever see eye to eye with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 (edited) 22 minutes ago, blkwdw13 said: So a QB improving is the worst thing going forward, yeah I think no one will ever see eye to eye with you. How much is he going to improve? Is the best case that he turns into Mahomes? Obviously. But if your expectations of Fields in 2023 are a Lamar ceiling (League MVP quality play), I think that's a relatively unfair expectation for any QB, not just Fields. If he doesn't play that well, then yeah, I think you are further from a QB in 2024 than you are right now. Let's say he goes out and does improve realistically and puts up say, 64%, 90rtg, 4000 total yards, 35 total TDs, 10 turnovers next year. How excited are you really about a guy with 2 bad years and an okay year? Now you have to keep him for 2024 for another evaluation season where a zillion things could go wrong (injury, regression, whatever), with a worst draft position. It legit feels like the expectations are MVP or bust lol. Again, I can accept I'm probably just wrong, that's fine. I think I'm a great driver, but 20+ tickets says I'm probably not. I think I'm right, but if every Bears fan disagrees - hey, maybe I'm wrong. But as someone with no skin in the game, this is just how I look at it. Edited January 2, 2023 by Soggust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 41 minutes ago, beardown3231 said: And that might be the decision Poles makes. Pace did the same in 2017. He knew he'd never be picking top 3 again. Poles may load up at WR and OL (and **** hopefully DL but that's another discussion) and let Young be the guy to play with that supporting cast. I just don't think he will. Also, the best case scenario is Fields turns out to be a good passer with the ability to run when he needs to. I think his ceiling is much higher than Jackson's is. I'm sure you disagree on that. Also you're giving the Bears organization way too much credit. They are and have been a pathetic organization. Nobody leans on championship from 42 years ago quite like this one. They've won 2 playoff games in the last 15 years. If keeping Fields gets Poles and Eberflus fired after the 2024 season, so be it, but it's not like the owners have any sense of how to behave like anything other than a cowardly organization. Yeah, maybe the argument is - if you take a QB and don't fix the other issues, you are just setting him up to fail like they did with Fields. Then it comes down to value I suppose. One thing I will say is that I feel like Chicago's wind or whatever makes it really hard for QBs to be successful throwing (source: trust me bro). Fields style feels like a huge advantage if he improves and they get the other pieces around him fixed. I'm just concerned he might run out of time before they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Everybody comes running in with something to say after a blow out loss. All the evidence they need to confirm their bias. Nobody plays good under constant pressure and with no talent around him. Not Brady, not Montana, not Brees, not Rodgers, not Manning at height of their powers. They all have played at least one game under those circumstances and looked like garbage. What did Steve Young look like on Tampa Bay? Guess he was a RB playing QB that could never make it in the league. Young was 3-16 with the Bucs with small talent around him. What did Archie Manning look like on some of those New Orleans teams? That is Fields life day in and day out. Give Fields a clean pocket for most of 4 quarters and some wide open WRs for multiple games and then you can *****. He was hurt, had no protection and no one to throw to. His best player was Kmet who is an average starting TE. It's a ridiculous situation to be in starting your first season and getting your roster stripped to bone. Is he perfect after 1 year starting in league? Of course not. Coming in and saying he is a running back who can never make it in this league is beyond stupid. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 I wonder. If we secured the first pick, traded down to rack up more picks and a first next year, and again for more future picks, but Das Flubby wins less than 6 again next year, is he even around next draft to use them? This is an instant gratification league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 2017: Patrick Mahomes was available at our pick but we rolled with Trubisky 2023: Will Levis was available at our pick but we rolled with Fields Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 imagine that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 27 minutes ago, Ty21 said: imagine that The trade that really interests me right now is one with Carolina if they are willing to move Brian Burns to get themselves a QB...apparently their owner David Tepper is obsessed with it and likes Will Levis...if we could do something like... Bears send #2 Overall Panthers send DE Brian Burns + #8, #57 & #89 which would value Burns at around the 23rd pick in this draft...allow Carolina to keep their early 2nd round pick and not give up anything in the future... For us we get a young explosive DE and with the #8 pick can choose to really fix the DL with with Myles Murphy or Tyree Wilson or give Fields a potential #1 receiver in Quentin Johnston or even trade down further if another team wants to move up for a QB like Stroud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 37 minutes ago, Ty21 said: 2017: Patrick Mahomes was available at our pick but we rolled with Trubisky 2023: Will Levis was available at our pick but we rolled with Fields oh wow I’m going to need like a week to get over that comparison (not to mention the completely different situations) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said: oh wow I’m going to need like a week to get over that comparison (not to mention the completely different situations) Similarities: 1. They’re both quarterbacks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ty21 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 11 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: The trade that really interests me right now is one with Carolina if they are willing to move Brian Burns to get themselves a QB...apparently their owner David Tepper is obsessed with it and likes Will Levis...if we could do something like... Bears send #2 Overall Panthers send DE Brian Burns + #8, #57 & #89 which would value Burns at around the 23rd pick in this draft...allow Carolina to keep their early 2nd round pick and not give up anything in the future... For us we get a young explosive DE and with the #8 pick can choose to really fix the DL with with Myles Murphy or Tyree Wilson or give Fields a potential #1 receiver in Quentin Johnston or even trade down further if another team wants to move up for a QB like Stroud. I’m personally hoping we are active enough in free agency that drafting someone in the first isn’t directly screwing another position of need. Like trading for Burns and 8, signing Daron Payne then taking Johnston or trading down again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Madmike90 said: The trade that really interests me right now is one with Carolina if they are willing to move Brian Burns to get themselves a QB...apparently their owner David Tepper is obsessed with it and likes Will Levis...if we could do something like... Bears send #2 Overall Panthers send DE Brian Burns + #8, #57 & #89 which would value Burns at around the 23rd pick in this draft...allow Carolina to keep their early 2nd round pick and not give up anything in the future... For us we get a young explosive DE and with the #8 pick can choose to really fix the DL with with Myles Murphy or Tyree Wilson or give Fields a potential #1 receiver in Quentin Johnston or even trade down further if another team wants to move up for a QB like Stroud. Just don’t see them moving Burns. They had the chance to at the deadline, for a whole lot, and passed repeatedly. That haul would have not only put them in a better spot for a QB, but also given them the ammo to get basically whoever they wanted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmike90 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 Just now, StLunatic88 said: Just don’t see them moving Burns. They had the chance to at the deadline, for a whole lot, and passed repeatedly. That haul would have not only put them in a better spot for a QB, but also given them the ammo to get basically whoever they wanted The Rams offered a 2024 & 2025 1st for Burns...I can understand why they said no because there is no immediate help there...if Tepper really is obsessed with the QB spot they might not have a choice but to move a guy like Burns if they want to leave themselves with anything to build around him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StLunatic88 Posted January 2, 2023 Share Posted January 2, 2023 31 minutes ago, Madmike90 said: The Rams offered a 2024 & 2025 1st for Burns...I can understand why they said no because there is no immediate help there...if Tepper really is obsessed with the QB spot they might not have a choice but to move a guy like Burns if they want to leave themselves with anything to build around him. Yes those are two PREMIUM assets with the trajectory of the Rams right now, and could have helped them get Whatever QB they would want. And they passed on them. Seems like you have gotten Burns stuck in your head like he is the savior to this defense (still not the most important player in this scheme) but he is clearly a Franchise Cornerstone for them, just like DJ Moore. The Panthers can go get just about any QB they want this off-season, if they true are “obsessed” with them, without giving up those players. Teams do it every year. Heck they could end up with a better QB them they had this year without giving up really anything. There will be plenty on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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