lavar703 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 12 minutes ago, Danger said: In this class or next. But he's far from generational. Next year's class seems very uninspiring to me. I don't agree that he's far from generational. I think he does things most QBs could only dream of being able to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, lavar703 said: I don't agree that he's far from generational. I think he does things most QBs could only dream of being able to do. But can he throw the ball from the pocket on time, on target, into tight windows---consistently. Thats the most transferrable trait and the one trait that matters most in the NFL. Its the biggest indicator of success when looking how QBs can transfer from CFB to NFL. I dont think anybody can give a definitive answer that until they pour through all of his tape. I thought people would have learned their lesson after the Bryce Young fiasco last draft about comparing QB prospects to 1-off generational talents as a reason to take them #1 overall, but here we are...back again lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaveOurSonics Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 I've come to redact my previous statement. Caleb Williams is not a generational QB prospect unfortunately. The foundational tools are elite, but there is a distinct weakness seemingly with his ability to read the field from the pocket & trust his eyes. I was really hoping / assuming that he'd take that next step in his development, but if anything he seemed to regress this season. I don't mind a QB that is somewhat reliant on creating off script, but I'd consider Caleb's style to be an over-reliance. Drake Maye is far from perfectly polished himself, but considering his size & ability to operate within design, I won't be at all surprised to see him selected as QB1 in this class. And this is coming from someone who was very low on Maye coming into the 2023 season. His biggest issue in 2022 was becoming overwhelmed under pressure & making mind-numbingly bad decisions with the ball, but he really improved on that in '23. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 poor man’s russell wilson or simply a glorified russell wilson at his worst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 10 hours ago, DoleINGout said: poor man’s russell wilson or simply a glorified russell wilson at his worst Pardon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 1 hour ago, goldfishwars said: Pardon he is slower both physically and mentally than you hype him up to be with an ego Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky151 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 The original Russell Wilson should be available in early March and probably cheap, at least for the first year. If the Bears aren't sold on either Fields or Williams, then signing Wilson and trading down from 1 would be a viable option. They can probably get a 2nd for Fields plus a conditional pick in 2025. They can get a haul for pick 1 depending on how far down they move. A couple of early picks used on offense and some free agency money plus a solid veteran starter can get them to the playoffs if that's the limit of their ambitions. It would buy Poles and Eberflus at least a couple more years until a longer term solution is found at QB. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMT Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 43 minutes ago, sparky151 said: The original Russell Wilson should be available in early March and probably cheap, at least for the first year. If the Bears aren't sold on either Fields or Williams, then signing Wilson and trading down from 1 would be a viable option. They can probably get a 2nd for Fields plus a conditional pick in 2025. They can get a haul for pick 1 depending on how far down they move. A couple of early picks used on offense and some free agency money plus a solid veteran starter can get them to the playoffs if that's the limit of their ambitions. It would buy Poles and Eberflus at least a couple more years until a longer term solution is found at QB. If you have the 1st pick overall and you end up with R. Wilson as your QB in 2024 you don't deserve at least a couple more years, you should be fired right after making that choice lol! 15 hours ago, DoleINGout said: poor man’s russell wilson or simply a glorified russell wilson at his worst I don't know if it's prospect fatigue with Caleb, who's been the presumptive #1 pick for 2 years now but it just feels like everybody are just focusing on his flaws the last few months. Yes, he, like every other QB who ever came out of college, has things to improve on. But you see him play and you see a poor man's Russell? I just don't agree with you at all, I think Caleb is a waaaay better prospect than Wilson was. He has every possible trait you can ask for in a QB. And maybe he has an ego, the guy just turned 22, he has time to mature nothing is definitive with him yet. We clearly all weren't our better selves at 22... Edited February 2 by MagicMT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 A more talented Johnny Manziel but nowhere near the prospect Luck was - def not "god tier" or even a generational talent. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 47 minutes ago, MagicMT said: If you have the 1st pick overall and you end up with R. Wilson as your QB in 2024 you don't deserve at least a couple more years, you should be fired right after making that choice lol! I don't know if it's prospect fatigue with Caleb, who's been the presumptive #1 pick for 2 years now but it just feels like everybody are just focusing on his flaws the last few months. Yes, he, like every other QB who ever came out of college, has things to improve on. But you see him play and you see a poor man's Russell? I just don't agree with you at all, I think Caleb is a waaaay better prospect than Wilson was. He has every possible trait you can ask for in a QB. And maybe he has an ego, the guy just turned 22, he has time to mature nothing is definitive with him yet. We clearly all weren't our better selves at 22... Yeah. It's just insane to think that you could roll into this draft with the #1 Pick and another within the Top 10...and somehow roll out of it with...the aged Russell Wilson as "your guy"? That's just nonsense. PR suicide. Not to mention probably career suicide. That said...for me, the real comp with Williams is like others have said. He's "Taller Kyler Murray". I don't like that. I don't know if that's a Franchise Quarterback. And i think it makes your job more difficult to build around, even if he is good. The way he "wins" is so often well outside the NFL scope, it's concerning to me. Flashy and yay he's got tools. But even the unicorn Mahomes...most of the time, he just wins from the pocket and with timing and placement. His ability to create outside of that is what takes him from a Franchise QB to "undisputed best QB in the league". But improvisation is not even really the foundation of his game. It's just something he does for fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 48 minutes ago, MagicMT said: But you see him play and you see a poor man's Russell? I just don't agree with you at all That’s okay 48 minutes ago, MagicMT said: I think Caleb is a waaaay better prospect than Wilson was maybe maybe not. Wilson was overlooked but do you think Caleb Williams is going to have a comparable or even way better career than Wilson? A future HOF lock and arguably a top 20 QB of all time? I think the comparison to Wilson is a compliment to Caleb, and there is no shame in falling short of being 75% of the player Wilson is/was. 75% of Wilson could project out to making several pro bowls during his career and maybe playing in a super bowl. That’s not a slight or poor comparison to me. 51 minutes ago, MagicMT said: He has every possible trait you can ask for in a QB. I just disagree. I think his athleticism is overblown and his mental development is a concern to me. I think he gets in his own way and it will be hard to train that out of him in the NFL against better competition. 54 minutes ago, MagicMT said: And maybe he has an ego, the guy just turned 22, he has time to mature nothing is definitive with him yet. We clearly all weren't our better selves at 22... Sure, I guess everyone at 22 is the same. But not everyone think so highly of themselves that they feel entitled to a stake of ownership in the team that drafts him and dictating where they go or threatening that. 55 minutes ago, MagicMT said: I don't know if it's prospect fatigue with Caleb, who's been the presumptive #1 pick for 2 years now but it just feels like everybody are just focusing on his flaws the last few months. I havent paid attention to Caleb Williams at all until the last few weeks. I know he was talked about as a 1st overall prospect last year but I never bothered to watch him last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 8 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: A future HOF lock and arguably a top 20 QB of all time Wow… haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 14 minutes ago, MaddHatter said: Wow… haha that’s a hot take for Russell Wilson? https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2023/russell-wilson’s-decade-of-dominance-in-seattle-remains-elite/ Edited February 2 by DoleINGout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaddHatter Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 11 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: that’s a hot take for Russell Wilson? https://www.profootballhof.com/news/2023/russell-wilson’s-decade-of-dominance-in-seattle-remains-elite/ Yes, it certainly is when you consider he was barely ever a top 5 QB in his own Era. He’s as much a HOFer as Eli Manning perhaps, but certainly not a lock nor a first ballot guy and definitely not Top 20 All-Time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 He needs a coach that is going to teach him how to play football properly. He is insanely talented. His mix of arm talent and leg talent is unicorn level. His weakness of course is he has not consistently played from the pocket how an NFL QB needs to. But it isn't like he can't learn how to do that. He is clearly the best prospect in this draft imo. He is not an overly safe pick, but his ceiling is absolutely absurd if you can develop him. The Russell Wilson comparison is awful to me. His physical talent is through the roof. Russell had tools, but nothing like what Caleb has. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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