2024 NFL Draft

[true2form]

2 hours ago, bucksavage1 said:

Time to cross QB off the list for 2024. Unless this staff gets fired, Aiden OC is the QBOTF

Really hope to see him play against actual NFL players before I get too excited.

[agarcia34]

2024 Draft offers a lot of options. Despite AOC rise. Good chance to get a QBOTF in the first round. If AOC sees no real playing time during the season. I don’t see how Josh doesn’t go after a QB. 
 

OT class especially the top 3 are ridiculous. 
 

Raiders won’t need one but there is some serious talent at EDGE. 
 

[NYRaider]

14 hours ago, big_palooka said:

 

https://theathletic.com/4477888/2023/05/02/nfl-mock-draft-2024-caleb-williams/?access_token=595014

Bugler has him as pick 15 in his early mock

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/37024079/2024-nfl-mock-draft-todd-mcshay-early-first-round-predictions-quarterback-landing-spots-32-picks

McShay has him at pick 20

Interested to see if him and/or Ewers can take the next step this year. Ewers arm talent is insane,

[jimkelly02]

10 hours ago, agarcia34 said:

2024 Draft offers a lot of options. Despite AOC rise. Good chance to get a QBOTF in the first round. If AOC sees no real playing time during the season. I don’t see how Josh doesn’t go after a QB. 
 

OT class especially the top 3 are ridiculous. 
 

Raiders won’t need one but there is some serious talent at EDGE. 
 

Unless Munford locks down RT, which I feel isn’t likely- I think it’s more likely he wins the job and plays to a level that warrants upgrading from if possible, I wouldn’t mind drafting a longterm RT in round 2.

if you look around our division all three other teams have invested heavily into 2 good OTs: KC- signed Donovan Smith to a steal of a deal and IMO significantly overpaid Jawaan Taylor, Den- Signed McGlinchey to pair with Bolles, LAC- drafted Slater and Pipkins in rounds 1/3.    There are also numerous other teams that significantly invested draft picks and/or signed too FAs to create a high quality LT and RT combo.  The dream that we could find a cheap but highly effective RT in Eluemenor has already started to fade.

While O’Connell has played well, I think we need to be happy but realistic of the situation.  He hasn’t been playing against players who will see significant playing time, these are guys who will be backups or cut.  I’m very happy with his play but I’m not seeing a franchise QB when he plays.  I see a very good system QB who’s probably going to be a very good backup if he can progress.  I was very very happy with his longer throws and his willingness to take calculated chances.  But, the arm talent isn’t elite.  He puts some air under those longer throws.  That won’t work versus the talent he’ll have in the regular season.

So while I’m very happy with O’Connell so far I think come the 2024 draft we should be drafting a 1st round QB like Ewers if the opportunity exists and we don’t have to trade a ton of picks to trade up.

[jimkelly02]

13 hours ago, Devilshark69 said:

Unless of course his name is Brian Urlacher.....the totally 100% exception to the rule. 👍🤣🤣🍻

This isn’t meant to go against what your saying… this is more of an blanket response to the topic.

lots of players get “converted”.  Some guys play 1 maybe 2 years at a position in college then move to a new position where they play the remaining years while others “converts” play their entire college careers at one position and then move to another in the pros.  I think there is such a varying scale in terms of how much of a project the players move to a new position is.  
Players in college move positions for a variety of reasons.  This could be because they’ve added weight/grew, strong competition at one position and an opening at another presented an opportunity to see more snaps, etc.  

I think there needs to be way better classification of the word “convert”.  

I have an issue with the story that gets remembered and retold about Urlacher. First, he didn’t have the 258lb frame he had in the NFL while he was playing in college.  In fact, he put on 20lbs between his senior season ending and the combine.  His first two years he was in the 220s and played safety, then he got a new HC at New Mexico who ran a 3-3-5 defense that essentially let Urlacher line up a few yards further off the ball than the LBs and attack the ball on some plays and on others he was a LB who was given the ability to freelance.  His responsibilities in coverage were very minimal… he ran with TEs with deep help, he wasn’t dropping down into the slot to cover slot WRs like real free safeties are asked to do.  He was allowed to freelance a ton because of his playmaking ability on a team where he was head and shoulders more talented than his teammates.  There is the idea out there that Urlacher was playing free safety…. As if he had deep coverage responsibilities.  It’s laughable.  If that happened on more than 10 snaps I’d be amazed.  I just have a bone to pick with the revisionist history of Urlacher’s college career.  

While I understand why some people are against the typical safety to LB converts and i think that is the new waive of the NFL and you have to adapt.  as the game goes towards a more passing league, rules change to help the passing game, and passing offensives advance linebackers need to be faster and better in coverage.  It’s just a natural progression to take larger Safeties and move then into LBs.  At first there was a large bust rate but as time goes on and the development of these players starts earlier and earlier in college I think you’ll see higher success rates.  Also, as coaches get better at building defenses that put these guys in more favorable roles their success will improve.

But like anything else you have to take every player on a case by case situation.  Every player has some varying degree of success rate.

[jimkelly02]

On 8/19/2023 at 11:16 PM, Jeremy408 said:

I don't even think a coverage linebackers gonna get it done really you need a really good coverage safety 

Quite honestly when you have an elite QB throwing to an elite TE, who btw is the #1 receiving option on the team, your just hoping to contain them not take them away AND limit their big plays throughout the game and at key moments.

You’re not going to limit a guy like Kelce with a coverage LB OR a really good coverage safety …. Unless we’re talking all-pro level.  Even then it’s no guarantee.  The best attack is a good defensive scheme featuring a mixture of attacks: DEs chipping Kelce on his release, blanket coverages from athletic linebackers with safety help.

[Devilshark69]

15 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

He's like the original right?

Don’t know if he’s the original, but definitely broke the mold. 👍🤣🤣

[Devilshark69]

1 hour ago, jimkelly02 said:

This isn’t meant to go against what your saying… this is more of an blanket response to the topic.

lots of players get “converted”.  Some guys play 1 maybe 2 years at a position in college then move to a new position where they play the remaining years while others “converts” play their entire college careers at one position and then move to another in the pros.  I think there is such a varying scale in terms of how much of a project the players move to a new position is.  
Players in college move positions for a variety of reasons.  This could be because they’ve added weight/grew, strong competition at one position and an opening at another presented an opportunity to see more snaps, etc.  

I think there needs to be way better classification of the word “convert”.  

I have an issue with the story that gets remembered and retold about Urlacher. First, he didn’t have the 258lb frame he had in the NFL while he was playing in college.  In fact, he put on 20lbs between his senior season ending and the combine.  His first two years he was in the 220s and played safety, then he got a new HC at New Mexico who ran a 3-3-5 defense that essentially let Urlacher line up a few yards further off the ball than the LBs and attack the ball on some plays and on others he was a LB who was given the ability to freelance.  His responsibilities in coverage were very minimal… he ran with TEs with deep help, he wasn’t dropping down into the slot to cover slot WRs like real free safeties are asked to do.  He was allowed to freelance a ton because of his playmaking ability on a team where he was head and shoulders more talented than his teammates.  There is the idea out there that Urlacher was playing free safety…. As if he had deep coverage responsibilities.  It’s laughable.  If that happened on more than 10 snaps I’d be amazed.  I just have a bone to pick with the revisionist history of Urlacher’s college career.  

While I understand why some people are against the typical safety to LB converts and i think that is the new waive of the NFL and you have to adapt.  as the game goes towards a more passing league, rules change to help the passing game, and passing offensives advance linebackers need to be faster and better in coverage.  It’s just a natural progression to take larger Safeties and move then into LBs.  At first there was a large bust rate but as time goes on and the development of these players starts earlier and earlier in college I think you’ll see higher success rates.  Also, as coaches get better at building defenses that put these guys in more favorable roles their success will improve.

But like anything else you have to take every player on a case by case situation.  Every player has some varying degree of success rate.

I was just mentioning he was the best convert, never said he played FS. And no, I’m not all twisted up about your reply for the record. You are correct, he was just the best convert I could think of. It was more of a humor post than technical post. 🍻

[Geezy]

On 8/20/2023 at 6:52 AM, big_palooka said:

 

https://theathletic.com/4477888/2023/05/02/nfl-mock-draft-2024-caleb-williams/?access_token=595014

Bugler has him as pick 15 in his early mock

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2024/insider/story/_/id/37024079/2024-nfl-mock-draft-todd-mcshay-early-first-round-predictions-quarterback-landing-spots-32-picks

McShay has him at pick 20

And this is why so many GMs get fired lol 

[bucksavage1]

4 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

This isn’t meant to go against what your saying… this is more of an blanket response to the topic.

lots of players get “converted”.  Some guys play 1 maybe 2 years at a position in college then move to a new position where they play the remaining years while others “converts” play their entire college careers at one position and then move to another in the pros.  I think there is such a varying scale in terms of how much of a project the players move to a new position is.  
Players in college move positions for a variety of reasons.  This could be because they’ve added weight/grew, strong competition at one position and an opening at another presented an opportunity to see more snaps, etc.  

I think there needs to be way better classification of the word “convert”.  

I have an issue with the story that gets remembered and retold about Urlacher. First, he didn’t have the 258lb frame he had in the NFL while he was playing in college.  In fact, he put on 20lbs between his senior season ending and the combine.  His first two years he was in the 220s and played safety, then he got a new HC at New Mexico who ran a 3-3-5 defense that essentially let Urlacher line up a few yards further off the ball than the LBs and attack the ball on some plays and on others he was a LB who was given the ability to freelance.  His responsibilities in coverage were very minimal… he ran with TEs with deep help, he wasn’t dropping down into the slot to cover slot WRs like real free safeties are asked to do.  He was allowed to freelance a ton because of his playmaking ability on a team where he was head and shoulders more talented than his teammates.  There is the idea out there that Urlacher was playing free safety…. As if he had deep coverage responsibilities.  It’s laughable.  If that happened on more than 10 snaps I’d be amazed.  I just have a bone to pick with the revisionist history of Urlacher’s college career.  

While I understand why some people are against the typical safety to LB converts and i think that is the new waive of the NFL and you have to adapt.  as the game goes towards a more passing league, rules change to help the passing game, and passing offensives advance linebackers need to be faster and better in coverage.  It’s just a natural progression to take larger Safeties and move then into LBs.  At first there was a large bust rate but as time goes on and the development of these players starts earlier and earlier in college I think you’ll see higher success rates.  Also, as coaches get better at building defenses that put these guys in more favorable roles their success will improve.

But like anything else you have to take every player on a case by case situation.  Every player has some varying degree of success rate.

- I think KC and Den overpaid for their tackles. Donovan Smith is over the hill and may give KC issues. McGlinchey is just a hair above average who was overpaid. He’s not that much better than JE. 
 

- I disagree with O’Connell. He definitely can be a franchise QB. He’s only played two preseason games and played exceptionally well. Better than all the so called franchise QBs drafted this year. The goal would be to continue to develop him. His arm talent is enough to be a starter and win games. The test now as you said would be to see him in regular season play as it is with all young players

[bucksavage1]

20 minutes ago, Geezy said:

And this is why so many GMs get fired lol 

Or reporters trying to get attention by outrageous takes

[jimkelly02]

5 hours ago, Devilshark69 said:

I was just mentioning he was the best convert, never said he played FS. And no, I’m not all twisted up about your reply for the record. You are correct, he was just the best convert I could think of. It was more of a humor post than technical post. 🍻

Yeah I realize you were just using him as an example of the first convert and not going into depth by any means.  
My comment was more about how the majority of people, including the media, portray Urlacher’s conversion.  They say he was a free safety / linebacker when he basically was just a freelancer, they called a “Lobos-backer”, who was allowed to play behind LBs and fly to the ball with all the advantages of that DL and LB eating up blockers.  He did not have free safety coverage responsibilities.

[ronjon1990]

7 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

This isn’t meant to go against what your saying… this is more of an blanket response to the topic.

lots of players get “converted”.  Some guys play 1 maybe 2 years at a position in college then move to a new position where they play the remaining years while others “converts” play their entire college careers at one position and then move to another in the pros.  I think there is such a varying scale in terms of how much of a project the players move to a new position is.  
Players in college move positions for a variety of reasons.  This could be because they’ve added weight/grew, strong competition at one position and an opening at another presented an opportunity to see more snaps, etc.  

I think there needs to be way better classification of the word “convert”.  

I have an issue with the story that gets remembered and retold about Urlacher. First, he didn’t have the 258lb frame he had in the NFL while he was playing in college.  In fact, he put on 20lbs between his senior season ending and the combine.  His first two years he was in the 220s and played safety, then he got a new HC at New Mexico who ran a 3-3-5 defense that essentially let Urlacher line up a few yards further off the ball than the LBs and attack the ball on some plays and on others he was a LB who was given the ability to freelance.  His responsibilities in coverage were very minimal… he ran with TEs with deep help, he wasn’t dropping down into the slot to cover slot WRs like real free safeties are asked to do.  He was allowed to freelance a ton because of his playmaking ability on a team where he was head and shoulders more talented than his teammates.  There is the idea out there that Urlacher was playing free safety…. As if he had deep coverage responsibilities.  It’s laughable.  If that happened on more than 10 snaps I’d be amazed.  I just have a bone to pick with the revisionist history of Urlacher’s college career.  

While I understand why some people are against the typical safety to LB converts and i think that is the new waive of the NFL and you have to adapt.  as the game goes towards a more passing league, rules change to help the passing game, and passing offensives advance linebackers need to be faster and better in coverage.  It’s just a natural progression to take larger Safeties and move then into LBs.  At first there was a large bust rate but as time goes on and the development of these players starts earlier and earlier in college I think you’ll see higher success rates.  Also, as coaches get better at building defenses that put these guys in more favorable roles their success will improve.

But like anything else you have to take every player on a case by case situation.  Every player has some varying degree of success rate.

Rocky Long, one of the more underrated HCs of our time. I would've loved to see what he could have done at a major program. 

[jpaulthe1st]

8 hours ago, jimkelly02 said:

Unless Munford locks down RT, which I feel isn’t likely- I think it’s more likely he wins the job and plays to a level that warrants upgrading from if possible, I wouldn’t mind drafting a longterm RT in round 2.

if you look around our division all three other teams have invested heavily into 2 good OTs: KC- signed Donovan Smith to a steal of a deal and IMO significantly overpaid Jawaan Taylor, Den- Signed McGlinchey to pair with Bolles, LAC- drafted Slater and Pipkins in rounds 1/3.    There are also numerous other teams that significantly invested draft picks and/or signed too FAs to create a high quality LT and RT combo.  The dream that we could find a cheap but highly effective RT in Eluemenor has already started to fade.

While O’Connell has played well, I think we need to be happy but realistic of the situation.  He hasn’t been playing against players who will see significant playing time, these are guys who will be backups or cut.  I’m very happy with his play but I’m not seeing a franchise QB when he plays.  I see a very good system QB who’s probably going to be a very good backup if he can progress.  I was very very happy with his longer throws and his willingness to take calculated chances.  But, the arm talent isn’t elite.  He puts some air under those longer throws.  That won’t work versus the talent he’ll have in the regular season.

So while I’m very happy with O’Connell so far I think come the 2024 draft we should be drafting a 1st round QB like Ewers if the opportunity exists and we don’t have to trade a ton of picks to trade up.

Keep in mind that AOC is also playing with inferior talent while he’s on the field. Also, it isn’t like he’s getting schemed up plays with guys running wide open. He’s standing in the pocket, making quick reads, and getting the ball out accurately. Those are all traits that extrapolate out regardless of talent level on the field. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

On 8/19/2023 at 10:19 AM, big_palooka said:

This is how a LB is suppose to look. I'm tired of the safety looking tweeners who don't want to mix it up with blockers 

We only draft the project tweeners the lb position has evolved and there’s always a handful of guys that can do it all. Just gotta draft um. I’ve been pointing them out every draft for the last 5,6,7 years