2024 Offseason Free Agency

[SteelKing728]

11 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Maybe it was the system and they could not understand what Flores wanted out of them.  But honestly not sure they will be greatly improved this year but sure hope so in regards to overall team depth.

I think it was just a bad draft paired with bad picks and a bad DC. The quality was not there in 2022. Trading back was not a smart move. 

Jordan Davis or Kyle Hamilton would have been great picks at 1.12. Ingram would have been fine as our only 2nd round pick and taking Christian Harris over Brian Asamoah would have put us in a great position right now. 

But, that's water under the bridge. Too bad so sad.

[gopherwrestler]

3 minutes ago, SteelKing728 said:

I think it was just a bad draft paired with bad picks and a bad DC. The quality was not there in 2022. Trading back was not a smart move. 

Jordan Davis or Kyle Hamilton would have been great picks at 1.12. Ingram would have been fine as our only 2nd round pick and taking Christian Harris over Brian Asamoah would have put us in a great position right now. 

But, that's water under the bridge. Too bad so sad.

The one thing I will defend him on, which I’m not sure if anything has changed….

The 2022 draft was not his scouting department. It was said they held onto the scouting department of what Rick had. Hard to switch that when signed in January and having a draft in April.

 

What we don’t know is who he changed. I have no idea if he ever revamped his scouting department.

[Cearbhall]

12 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Go back 25 years it is worse than them all when just looking at the first three rounds for the Vikings, yes that Williamson year but he at least played, hell had 455 yards his second season and James that was mostly that injury and Marcus Johnson started for a bit also.  And yes Treadwell for sure but Alexander played pretty legit in the slot for a little while and saw action, but that is probably the only one that would compare.  

2016

1 Laquon Treadwell
2 Mackensie Alexander
4 Willie Beavers

Okay, I didn't think that hard about it, but you might be right.  The returns on the Vikings first three rounds in '22 might be the worst returns the Vikings have gotten in the last 30 years.  I was just assuming there were worse, but you might be right.  I can't point to a year and claim the Vikings got less value.  I am not sure how Willie Beavers is on the list for 2016 since he was a 4th round pick, but I also admit that I can't recall where they got that pick from.  Did that originate, via trade, from the picks they had in the first three rounds?

Not that it matters, Alexander did enough himself in his first few years to make that draft more useful.  He wasn't great, but at least he was worth putting on the field a reasonable amount.

It's even worse thinking about how historically bad the first two days of the '22 draft was for the Vikings when considering their picks were much higher than many of those other years where they found more useful players.

Forced to retreat, I'll move the bar.  The use the Vikings got out of the first 3 rounds of the '22 draft might have been historically bad for the Vikings organization but was probably not historically bad when viewed against all the teams first three round returns in the last 30 years.  I am not the draft expert to be able to tell you which draft classes for which teams were worse through three rounds, but I would think there have been at least 10-20 worse throughout the league.

So yeah, the first two days of the '22 draft for the Vikings looks stupendously poor, but I still think in the current NFL a team should be able to bounce back from that in 3-5 years. The Vikings are getting to that window where they shouldn't be able to point to the '22 draft as a reason why they are depleted of depth and talent. 

The team has had a couple other drafts and free agency periods to rebound.  The team's '23 draft didn't yield a ton, but it did yield a player that looks well on his way to becoming a solid WR2 and a couple other guys that look like they may be worth regular playing time. We shouldn't forget that TJ Hockenson is the result of the team's second round pick last year. The team should get even more useful talent this month assuming KAM is improving at that.  If he isn't, well I suppose they ought to fire him. I'm not ready to conclude he isn't improving though.  I think he is, but we'll see what happens with the '24 draft picks.

The team has brought in some useful pieces in free agency too. KAM really invested in the defense this year in free agency. I am excited to see what Flores will do with the new guys. KAM also brought in a QB that should be good enough so that he doesn't have to be desperate in the draft. If he does something rash in the draft with the QB position, then I am not sure what he was doing paying Darnold $10M. There are still moves to be made in free agency this year, but they aren't likely to do much before the draft. The post draft wave of free agency will have some guys that the team might be able to use to fill in particular roles. Then there will also be roster trimming availability of players. 

The Vikings have no reasonable excuse to not get guys they need based on some hope from the '22 draft players.  Let those players try and prove they deserve to be on the roster, but the team shouldn't be counting on them for anything so if those players are mostly useless again this year it isn't an excuse for not fielding a better group. They shouldn't be passing over free agents thinking Cine, Booth, or Asamoah are going to improve and hold back up positions. It would be a dereliction of responsibilities to have a hole at any of those positions and explain it away at this point by saying something like "but we drafted players in '22 that we were counting on". 

That would be foolishness. The team can't let that matter now.  They need to turn the page. Every team and every GM makes mistakes. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to use those mistakes as an excuse for anything two years later.  The league moves too quickly for that.

[SemperFeist]

3 hours ago, gopherwrestler said:

The one thing I will defend him on, which I’m not sure if anything has changed….

The 2022 draft was not his scouting department. It was said they held onto the scouting department of what Rick had. Hard to switch that when signed in January and having a draft in April.

 

What we don’t know is who he changed. I have no idea if he ever revamped his scouting department.

And, to add to that, the Vikings lost some pretty senior level scouts after the 2021 draft to Denver with George Paton. So, a good chunk of scouts that Kwesi inherited were either new to the organization, as well, or the Vikings scouting department wasn’t as robust as it had been in the past. 

[Ozzy]

1 hour ago, Cearbhall said:

Okay, I didn't think that hard about it, but you might be right.  The returns on the Vikings first three rounds in '22 might be the worst returns the Vikings have gotten in the last 30 years.  I was just assuming there were worse, but you might be right.  I can't point to a year and claim the Vikings got less value.  I am not sure how Willie Beavers is on the list for 2016 since he was a 4th round pick, but I also admit that I can't recall where they got that pick from.  Did that originate, via trade, from the picks they had in the first three rounds?

Not that it matters, Alexander did enough himself in his first few years to make that draft more useful.  He wasn't great, but at least he was worth putting on the field a reasonable amount.

It's even worse thinking about how historically bad the first two days of the '22 draft was for the Vikings when considering their picks were much higher than many of those other years where they found more useful players.

Forced to retreat, I'll move the bar.  The use the Vikings got out of the first 3 rounds of the '22 draft might have been historically bad for the Vikings organization but was probably not historically bad when viewed against all the teams first three round returns in the last 30 years.  I am not the draft expert to be able to tell you which draft classes for which teams were worse through three rounds, but I would think there have been at least 10-20 worse throughout the league.

So yeah, the first two days of the '22 draft for the Vikings looks stupendously poor, but I still think in the current NFL a team should be able to bounce back from that in 3-5 years. The Vikings are getting to that window where they shouldn't be able to point to the '22 draft as a reason why they are depleted of depth and talent. 

The team has had a couple other drafts and free agency periods to rebound.  The team's '23 draft didn't yield a ton, but it did yield a player that looks well on his way to becoming a solid WR2 and a couple other guys that look like they may be worth regular playing time. We shouldn't forget that TJ Hockenson is the result of the team's second round pick last year. The team should get even more useful talent this month assuming KAM is improving at that.  If he isn't, well I suppose they ought to fire him. I'm not ready to conclude he isn't improving though.  I think he is, but we'll see what happens with the '24 draft picks.

The team has brought in some useful pieces in free agency too. KAM really invested in the defense this year in free agency. I am excited to see what Flores will do with the new guys. KAM also brought in a QB that should be good enough so that he doesn't have to be desperate in the draft. If he does something rash in the draft with the QB position, then I am not sure what he was doing paying Darnold $10M. There are still moves to be made in free agency this year, but they aren't likely to do much before the draft. The post draft wave of free agency will have some guys that the team might be able to use to fill in particular roles. Then there will also be roster trimming availability of players. 

The Vikings have no reasonable excuse to not get guys they need based on some hope from the '22 draft players.  Let those players try and prove they deserve to be on the roster, but the team shouldn't be counting on them for anything so if those players are mostly useless again this year it isn't an excuse for not fielding a better group. They shouldn't be passing over free agents thinking Cine, Booth, or Asamoah are going to improve and hold back up positions. It would be a dereliction of responsibilities to have a hole at any of those positions and explain it away at this point by saying something like "but we drafted players in '22 that we were counting on". 

That would be foolishness. The team can't let that matter now.  They need to turn the page. Every team and every GM makes mistakes. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to use those mistakes as an excuse for anything two years later.  The league moves too quickly for that.

Yes looking back over the entire NFL over the last 25 years or so would take too long, but just looking at the Division here is what I have out of Detroit, Chicago and Green Bay.

 

Some bad picks but a lot were near the bottom of the 1st round, and really the Bears group probably should not even be on this list because Paea played and was solid and Conte was ok, even Carimi at least played.  Same with Carroll on the Packers, at least he got out there same with King and Josh Jones but both ended up being not good players.  Top bring that Reynolds group arguably because of him but Ferguson was a decent pro WR.

 

 

2001 Green Bay Packers
1 Jamal Reynolds
2 Robert Ferguson
3 Bhawoh Jue

 

2004 Green Bay Packers
1 Ahmad Carroll
3 Joey Thomas
3 Donnell Washington

 

2017 Green Bay Packers 
2 Kevin King
2 Josh Jones
3 Montravius Adams

 

2011 Chicago Bears
1 Gabe Carimi
2 Stephen Paea
3 Chris Conte

 

 

 

And yes out of the entire NFL I would not say the Vikings over that entire time are the worst, just saying in that specific 2022 NFL draft it was pretty bad when looking at the other top 66 picks as of right now.  Maybe that will change.  As for Kwesi, yes in free agency he has done some decent things no question, but again I feel Flores has a massive influence on who is selected on defense and why.  So most of the free agent defenders they bring in I would give Flores just as much credit as Kwesi.  Look at the free agents they brought in when Donatell was the DC, Sullivan, Patrick Peterson, Z. Smith, Hicks and Phillips.  Only one still here is Phillips and sadly they let Hicks go but he was much better with Flores than with Donatell I feel. Those DB selections were a question mark big time and Murphy obviously when Flores was here was a far better DB.  The draft for Kwesi, it is still up in the air because even last year, Addison is good but the rest are all just who knows, Blackmon at least is ok but not sure I would put him as a starter though.  

 

Time will tell but if the dude trades away 3 1st rounders for a QB that does not turn out, he is done for really.  And it would suck because then they have no high pick 2025 and still would not select again till the 4th round in 2024.  Still ultimately it comes down to playing and starting, sure guys can not be good but at least they are allowed or good enough a chance to start.  Out of all three of those draft picks, they have in two years a total of two starts, one by Booth each the past two years.  That is it, and that is really really bad I would say.  Guys so bad you do not even start them.  It would be hard to find a draft class going back with three guys in the first 66 picks all with so little playing time and starts, sure some of it for them is injury related but not all of it.

 

If I was any of those three I have no clue how they would not be super motivated to improve and get better, because it is their career and their life.  Shortly it will all be over if they do not change and get better.

[BWG VIKE]

If Penix is the choice, how much will his left arm change the offense. Would the tackles stick to the same side or switch. Would KOC have adjust his play calling and have a learning curve?

I think the lefty has its advantages against teams that are geared to power rush more from the natural righty blind side, sure D-lineman can be move around but to take them out of they're natural position will have its advantages against teams weekly game plans.

I would be happy with Penix at 11, he was my original draft crush when this thing really kicked off. His age is not an issue now that Kirk is gone, he will only be sitting for maybe a year, unlike the potentially 2 years if Kirk was the bridge.

 

[Ozzy]

4 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

And, to add to that, the Vikings lost some pretty senior level scouts after the 2021 draft to Denver with George Paton. So, a good chunk of scouts that Kwesi inherited were either new to the organization, as well, or the Vikings scouting department wasn’t as robust as it had been in the past. 

I still say that how in the world the GM is not all over basically every prospect, you should not need scouts to do the work for you completely.  The GM should have their own opinion and they compare that and he makes the final call.  It is not that hard, there are tons of hours in the day and football is not played year round.  Think of the film one could watch on the offseason, or the players you could gather information on in the spring.  

 

Sure scouts can travel more and see players in person more to gain that insight but come on, hard to say oh it was the college scouts as to why the Vikings selected who they selected.  Fact is they were wowed by Lewis Cine at the combine and overrated him because of an impressive 40 time, also overrated him because he was on a loaded superstar defense and was not asked to do much, and overrated him despite the fact he was thin in college in the lower body and was not great taking contact.  

 

And same with Asamoah, overrated him because of that speed despite being pretty damn small at LB and again not being able to take contact super well or being super consistent in college.  Andrew Booth, well he did not workout because he was hurt but showed physical toughness and grit on the field, but is hurt a lot, never played a full season in college and that has caught up to him.

Booth and Cine both lost a ton of confidence after they got hurt that is for sure, same with Asamoah.  

 

Is it the end of the world, of course not but it is pretty rare to have that many dudes all picked in the first 3 rounds and basically none of them have really played much or started in the last two years.  That does not happen much at all in the NFL to high selections.  At least Ed Ingram starts, think what trouble they would be in if he also never played or started....

[Ozzy]

I will say Kwesi did make one great move, not pay Kirk Cousins $180 million over the next four years and $100 of it guaranteed coming off a torn Achilles!

[Boda]

2 hours ago, Ozzy said:

I will say Kwesi did make one great move, not pay Kirk Cousins $180 million over the next four years and $100 of it guaranteed coming off a torn Achilles!

Do you think he would have had to match that offer?  Ive heard the Vikings only offered him 1 yr and held firm at that.  Would Cousins have accepted a 2 or 3yr deal here?

[vike daddy]

Just now, Boda said:

Do you think he would have had to match that offer?  Ive heard the Vikings only offered him 1 yr and held firm at that.  Would Cousins have accepted a 2 or 3yr deal here?

i read that they offered him three years but not fully guaranteed.

[Boda]

2 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

i read that they offered him three years but not fully guaranteed.

This is the first im hearing of this. Interesting if true 

 

Edit: I should say this. I mean confirmed from a legit source 3 yrs was offered.  I do remember at the beginning there were rumors of 3yrs but nothing from a legit source

Edited April 7 by Boda

[Ozzy]

13 minutes ago, Boda said:

Do you think he would have had to match that offer?  Ive heard the Vikings only offered him 1 yr and held firm at that.  Would Cousins have accepted a 2 or 3yr deal here?

I am just glad they moved on from him, because all they would have got was more the same and less money to use.  I fully do not expect the Falcons to all of a sudden win tons of playoff games and go to the Super Bowl because Kirk Cousins is there QB.  

 

They have a fine offensive roster in Atlanta, with the additions of Moore and Mooney it is arguably right on par with the Vikings roster offensively for weapons, and they have arguably just as good of a OL but center is a question and the tackles they have are not as good as the tackles the Vikings have.  And defensively they will have to find some legit edge players and some more DL for sure in the draft.  But with that Cousins contract not sure they can sign any other major free agents potentially and unless Kirk Cousins is some top 5 QB in the league not sure just he alone will get them over the hump because he never did that while he was in Minnesota.  

[Ozzy]

Curious if the Vikings take a run at Myjai Sanders.  Was cut from the Texans, is probably best in a 3/4 type defense because he is so thin but could be decent as a drop zone coverage edge defender and is a good athlete.  Could be got cheap as well.  

[Boda]

On 4/7/2024 at 12:48 PM, Ozzy said:

I am just glad they moved on from him, because all they would have got was more the same and less money to use.  I fully do not expect the Falcons to all of a sudden win tons of playoff games and go to the Super Bowl because Kirk Cousins is there QB.  

 

They have a fine offensive roster in Atlanta, with the additions of Moore and Mooney it is arguably right on par with the Vikings roster offensively for weapons, and they have arguably just as good of a OL but center is a question and the tackles they have are not as good as the tackles the Vikings have.  And defensively they will have to find some legit edge players and some more DL for sure in the draft.  But with that Cousins contract not sure they can sign any other major free agents potentially and unless Kirk Cousins is some top 5 QB in the league not sure just he alone will get them over the hump because he never did that while he was in Minnesota.  

Dont count out my guy Bijan Robinson putting that team on his back with an actual passing game now.

Everyone likes to talk about Pitts being a huge beneficiary but I actually think that will be Bijan, time will tell 

[Boda]

16 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Curious if the Vikings take a run at Myjai Sanders.  Was cut from the Texans, is probably best in a 3/4 type defense because he is so thin but could be decent as a drop zone coverage edge defender and is a good athlete.  Could be got cheap as well.  

I wouldn't hate it.  At the least he could be a camp body