Cearbhall Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 (edited) When you look at the makeup of teams that are good for a duration, being able to find solid starters for cheap via the draft is a key component. You can't pay 22 guys top 10 money. It is also an important source of low-cost quality depth. That is the reason why draft picks are valuable even though more often than not the team doesn't find a player that helps them much. Trading picks for proven players does seem like a fair strategy when a team is a player or two away. That is even more true when they know they are on the back side of a window or opportunity. Edited March 29 by Cearbhall 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted March 29 Author Share Posted March 29 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: When you look at the makeup of teams that are good for a duration, being able to find solid starters for cheap via the draft is a key component. You can't pay 22 guys top 10 money. It is also an important source of low-cost quality depth. That is the reason why draft picks are valuable even though more often than not the team doesn't find a player that helps them much. Trading picks for proven players does seem like a fair strategy would a team is a player or two away. That is even more true when they know they are on the back side of a window or opportunity. Agree. Ultimately, it's about the cap is why they don't trade for proven veteran players, as well as fit. Not every proven player fits within a team that trades for them. This has happened over and over again throughout history. I always look at Nnamdi Asomugha as a perfect example. While it wasn't a trade (as he was a free agent), he was on a HoF-level pace when he played for the Raiders...went to the Eagles in their Dream Team year and was god-awful...and never recovered. You never know how that player is going to fit, so it's much easier to take the risk on a draft pick and develop them yourself. Edited March 29 by swede700 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrplChilPill Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 No one is saying trade all your picks... But legit starters go for mid to late round picks all the time, picks that have less than a twenty percent chance of ever being starters.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 29 Share Posted March 29 Vikings will have some choices depending on how guys play especially Darnold and Jones. I would assume only reason Jones took such a cheap deal to come to Minnesota is to stick it to Green Bay, a team he most recently played great for those last five games. Will be fun this year especially if he stays healthy. 2025 Free Agents Justin Jefferson Christian Darrisaw Byron Murphy Aaron Jones Cam Bynum Sam Darnold Harrison Phillips 2026 Free Agents Andrew Van Ginkel Josh Oliver Garrett Bradbury Harrison Smith Josh Metellus That 2026 group is not big or impressive because that crap rookie class, one still has massive question marks on all of these guys (Cine, Booth, Ingram, Asamoah, Evans) and clearly resigning any to a 2nd contract outside of Ingram is totally not happening, and even Ingram is so so. And sure it seems oh get the veteran rookies and draft picks suck. Well look at Green Bay, they hit on draft picks and they are in a way better position without Rogers and Adams than with them. But they did hit on those draft picks and drafted extremely well the past few seasons. One could say they got more than just one starter out of those classes. Last year got possibly 5-6 starters, year before got 5-6 year before that got 3-4. Vikings on the other hand in that same time got 1-2, then 1, then 2. Pretty massive difference obviously and show just how suspect the past few drafts have been for Minnesota. And sure some guys could still develop out of those classes but honestly that is not very likely at all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted March 30 Share Posted March 30 Get your bag, Risner. ...Somewhere else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Not sure where to post this, but the "surprise" predicted cuts are Cine, Pat Jones, Ham, Nailor and Mullens. https://vikingsterritory.com/2024/news/top_news/5-players-surprise-cut-candidates-for-vikings I think the only surprise would be Ham. The other 4 are either injury prone and/or buried in the depth chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Ham would be surprising seeing that he takes up such a little % of the cap. He had the 5th most ST snaps on the team last year and is a veteran presence in the locker room. Cine is interesting because, if cut, he'd carry a $6.8M dead cap charge and have a negative impact on the cap. He'd cost $3.65M to cut, perhaps a small price to pay to keep a better player. HUGE offseason for him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Not sure why anyone would consider Mullens, Nailor, or Jones surprise cuts. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 On 3/30/2024 at 6:17 AM, SteelKing728 said: Get your bag, Risner. ...Somewhere else... Sucks he has not got paid yet, Nick Allegretti got a 3 year $16 million deal, John Simpson 2 years $12 million, Jon Runyan got 3 years $30 million even Ben Bredeson got a 1 year $3 million deal. I would say he is just as good as any of those guys. I would say he is just as good if not better than Damien Lewis and he got 4 year $53 million deal. Dalton Risner hopefully will get paid, curious if he has some major injury thing that is flagging other teams and making them not sign him? Even last year how he sat for so long unsigned, then Vikings get him on the cheap for $3 million and he starts 11 games and does not allow a sack... Yeah I would fire my agent as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 5 hours ago, VikeManDan said: Ham would be surprising seeing that he takes up such a little % of the cap. He had the 5th most ST snaps on the team last year and is a veteran presence in the locker room. Cine is interesting because, if cut, he'd carry a $6.8M dead cap charge and have a negative impact on the cap. He'd cost $3.65M to cut, perhaps a small price to pay to keep a better player. HUGE offseason for him. I assume they would be cutting him after June. It wouldn't cost the team more to cut him than it would cost to keep him. I suppose there would be a cost to paying the player that would replace him on the roster that wouldn't exist if he was filling that position. On the other hand, assuming someone else signs Cine the Vikings likely save a small amount. I wouldn't let Cine's pay or the cost of his replacement be much of a factor in the decision. The replacement player would be someone towards the bottom of the roster. Those guys do not cost much. If Flores thinks he can get something out of Cine that is great. Let Flores keep him and get what he has. If Flores thinks he can get better production out of someone else or if he would rather try and develop someone else, he should also be allowed to do that without cost considerations influencing the decision. Cine's guaranteed salary costs the same if he is on the team or out of the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 23 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: I assume they would be cutting him after June. It wouldn't cost the team more to cut him than it would cost to keep him. I suppose there would be a cost to paying the player that would replace him on the roster that wouldn't exist if he was filling that position. On the other hand, assuming someone else signs Cine the Vikings likely save a small amount. I wouldn't let Cine's pay or the cost of his replacement be much of a factor in the decision. The replacement player would be someone towards the bottom of the roster. Those guys do not cost much. If Flores thinks he can get something out of Cine that is great. Let Flores keep him and get what he has. If Flores thinks he can get better production out of someone else or if he would rather try and develop someone else, he should also be allowed to do that without cost considerations influencing the decision. Cine's guaranteed salary costs the same if he is on the team or out of the NFL. It is nuts to think that Cine, Asamoah and Booth are all not free agents until 2026. So that could be two more full years with them on the roster, but of course one needs to see improvement from them in some regard or they are just taking up space. Only hope for Cine is if they see some progress in him, wait a year, potentially not resign Bynum and have Cine take his place for 2025. It is a long shot that is for sure. But could totally see one or two of those three being cut if they hit on guys in the draft class. Crazy to think out of the top 66 picks in that 2022 draft class only Cine, Booth and Asamoah are at risk really of being cut before the season starts for 2024. Only other guy would be David Ojabo and doubt Ravens do that with injuries being a big reason why he has not produced more. Sucks for the Vikings though, three dudes.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteelKing728 Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 Bynum deserves his pay day. He's not getting replaced by Cine. If anything, he's taking on a bigger role with Harrison Smith being the 3rd Safety. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 1 hour ago, Ozzy said: Crazy to think out of the top 66 picks in that 2022 draft class only Cine, Booth and Asamoah are at risk really of being cut before the season starts for 2024. Only other guy would be David Ojabo and doubt Ravens do that with injuries being a big reason why he has not produced more. Sucks for the Vikings though, three dudes.... You keep mentioning that the Vikings 2022 first three rounds was the worst in the league that year. Even with Ingram positioned to possibly become an average starter at his position in the league, I doubt anyone disagrees with that. I think to put in perspective how bad the first three rounds of '22 was it would be more useful to compare the players the Vikings netted to the all-time worst first three rounds the Vikings has ever had. I assume we'll find that the Vikings ineptitude in the first three rounds in 2002 was not historical -- just the worst of any team in the particular year. I remember some years in the early 90's where the Vikings got some small fraction of Walker and a bunch of nothing in the first three rounds. They still recovered to have one of their best all-time teams by the end of the decade. In the 2000s they had the BKU year where they got very little out of their early picks followed by the Williamson year where they lost Moss along with their first three picks to get nothing special and Nepoleon Harris. Most years since then it seems they've gotten more out of their first, second, and third round pick. The Treadwell year was pretty bad, but even that was probably better than the Cine year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted April 6 Share Posted April 6 8 minutes ago, Cearbhall said: You keep mentioning that the Vikings 2022 first three rounds was the worst in the league that year. Even with Ingram positioned to possibly become an average starter at his position in the league, I doubt anyone disagrees with that. I think to put in perspective how bad the first three rounds of '22 was it would be more useful to compare the players the Vikings netted to the all-time worst first three rounds the Vikings has ever had. I assume we'll find that the Vikings ineptitude in the first three rounds in 2002 was not historical -- just the worst of any team in the particular year. I remember some years in the early 90's where the Vikings got some small fraction of Walker and a bunch of nothing in the first three rounds. They still recovered to have one of their best all-time teams by the end of the decade. In the 2000s they had the BKU year where they got very little out of their early picks followed by the Williamson year where they lost Moss along with their first three picks to get nothing special and Nepoleon Harris. Most years since then it seems they've gotten more out of their first, second, and third round pick. The Treadwell year was pretty bad, but even that was probably better than the Cine year. Go back 25 years it is worse than them all when just looking at the first three rounds for the Vikings, yes that Williamson year but he at least played, hell had 455 yards his second season and James that was mostly that injury and Marcus Johnson started for a bit also. And yes Treadwell for sure but Alexander played pretty legit in the slot for a little while and saw action, but that is probably the only one that would compare. 2016 1 Laquon Treadwell 2 Mackensie Alexander 4 Willie Beavers 2005 1Troy Williamson 1 Erasmus James 2 Marcus Johnson Either way if Cine, Booth and Asamoah do not improve and someone turns out that is a historically bad group for the organization. And I did not go through the entire draft for those other years, and I am sure you had other busts and blow picks also from other times. It is odd though you look at that 2022 class, and those Vikings guys are easily the most disappointing of any of the top 66 picks, almost all of them at least play or are ok. The fact the Vikings guys barely even play, wow. Even that Theo Jackson, I believe he was cut right off the bat in September, and even he still stuck around the league and Vikings signed him this off season again after he played over Cine last year. Both of them were in the same class. Maybe it was the system and they could not understand what Flores wanted out of them. But honestly not sure they will be greatly improved this year but sure hope so in regards to overall team depth. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted April 7 Share Posted April 7 9 hours ago, SteelKing728 said: Not sure where to post this, but the "surprise" predicted cuts are Cine, Pat Jones, Ham, Nailor and Mullens. https://vikingsterritory.com/2024/news/top_news/5-players-surprise-cut-candidates-for-vikings I think the only surprise would be Ham. The other 4 are either injury prone and/or buried in the depth chart. Yes, I’m expecting at least 4/5 to be cut with Ham being the only potential keep due to history, but i would be fine with it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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