Random Packer News & Notes

[Packerraymond]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Jimmy Graham ins't an "in-line" TE, so doesn't that make him a move TE by default?

Pre injury yes. Now he's a really tall guy running routes.

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Neither of us are arguing that. 31 other teams would rather have Alvin Kamara than their 3rd round pick. 31 teams would rather have taken David Bahktiari over their 4th rounder. That's the draft. It's a crapshoot. Re-signing a player who was a great fit for your organization shouldn't be a crapshoot. That's why it's one of the biggest blunders of the organization, it was obvious and they still screwed it up.

Except they got what they thought was an improvement for a similar price.  It's only using the power of hindsight (as we're doing with the draft picks) that it was the other case.

[Packerraymond]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Except they got what they thought was an improvement for a similar price.  It's only using the power of hindsight (as we're doing with the draft picks) that it was the other case.

Yes, that is the mistake. They screwed up negotiations with Cook and had to turn to Bennett (who many did not consider and upgrade). 

There's no possible way to say "this is the biggest blunder the organization has made in X years" without using hindsight. Literally impossible. Unless you are making it in the form of a prediction.

The difference between using the draft and this situation is the draft is and will forever be a crapshoot for all 32 teams. Every single round of every single year unless you make the best pick of the round you could say "we took player A, wish we would've taken player B". Re-signing someone who was in your building is not a comparable situation. The offense thrived at the highest level since 2011 with Cook and they outsmarted themselves and lost him.

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Yes, that is the mistake. They screwed up negotiations with Cook and had to turn to Bennett (who many did not consider and upgrade). The difference between using the draft and this situation is the draft is and will forever be a crapshoot for all 32 teams. Every single round of every single year unless you make the best pick of the round you could say "we took player A, wish we would've taken player B". Re-signing someone who was in your building is not a comparable situation. The offense thrived at the highest level since 2011 with Cook and they outsmarted themselves and lost him.

Agree with this entirely. I saw no reason not to resign the guy and the position has been in "fits and starts" mode ever since. Russ Ball's influence? TT stupidity? Cant say dont know but penny pinching isnt always the best way to build (or maintain) a competitive roster.

[CWood21]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Yes, that is the mistake. They screwed up negotiations with Cook and had to turn to Bennett (who many did not consider and upgrade). 

There's no possible way to say "this is the biggest blunder the organization has made in X years" without using hindsight. Literally impossible. Unless you are making it in the form of a prediction.

The difference between using the draft and this situation is the draft is and will forever be a crapshoot for all 32 teams. Every single round of every single year unless you make the best pick of the round you could say "we took player A, wish we would've taken player B". Re-signing someone who was in your building is not a comparable situation. The offense thrived at the highest level since 2011 with Cook and they outsmarted themselves and lost him.

http://footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=586606

The first few pages I've gone through, but I don't see anyone saying they preferred Cook to Bennett.  The Packers got what they thought was the better TE.

[Packerraymond]

3 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

http://footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=586606

The first few pages I've gone through, but I don't see anyone saying they preferred Cook to Bennett.  The Packers got what they thought was the better TE.

So if we decide to let Kenny Clark go for a different DT and that guy busts and Clark goes on to make 4 Pro Bowls, that can't be considered a blunder right? Cause we got who we thought was the better guy. 

How can the draft picks you mention be blunders?? Jones we had rated higher than JJSS and Kamara, can't be a blunder, we got who we thought was better.

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So if we decide to let Kenny Clark go for a different DT and that guy busts and Clark goes on to make 4 Pro Bowls, that can't be considered a blunder right? Cause we got who we thought was the better guy. 

How can the draft picks you mention be blunders?? Jones we had rated higher than JJSS and Kamara, can't be a blunder, we got who we thought was better.

No.  I'm arguing if you're going to use hindsight to justify Cook over Bennett, than you have to use that same hindsight to justify draft picks over Josh Jonest, etc.  Cook fits our offense more maybe 3-4 years after his initial year in Green Bay.  Not having JJSS or Alvin Kamara means we're still working on those positions.  If we had drafted Alvin Kamara instead of Josh Jones, would we even be talking about looking to improve our RB position?  Probably not.  We'd be talking about how we have the position set for the next decade.

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So if we decide to let Kenny Clark go for a different DT and that guy busts and Clark goes on to make 4 Pro Bowls, that can't be considered a blunder right? Cause we got who we thought was the better guy. 

Damarious Randall

[Leader]

Just now, Norm said:

Damarious Randall

Precarious Sandal

[Joe]

2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

No.  I'm arguing if you're going to use hindsight to justify Cook over Bennett, than you have to use that same hindsight to justify draft picks over Josh Jonest, etc.  Cook fits our offense more maybe 3-4 years after his initial year in Green Bay.  Not having JJSS or Alvin Kamara means we're still working on those positions.  If we had drafted Alvin Kamara instead of Josh Jones, would we even be talking about looking to improve our RB position?  Probably not.  We'd be talking about how we have the position set for the next decade.

Not to distract from the debate, but you really don't think we have the RB position set with Aaron Jones? Aaron Jones has a higher average YPC and the only difference between the two is really the fact that Kamara has had more opportunities to produce. I'm willing to be that Jones would be more productive than Kamara has been if he had been given the same amount of carries and targets since their rookie year.

[Leader]

2 minutes ago, Joe said:

Not to distract from the debate, but you really don't think we have the RB position set with Aaron Jones? Aaron Jones has a higher average YPC and the only difference between the two is really the fact that Kamara has had more opportunities to produce. I'm willing to be that Jones would be more productive than Kamara has been if he had been given the same amount of carries and targets since their rookie year.

Kamara's has played in 32 of 33 games.
Jones has played in 25 of 33 games.

[vegas492]

Some Bears fans threw this video my way to explain how GB gets away with holding.  I had honestly never seen, nor heard about this.

Whatcha think?  Seems to me like if it was holding, it would be called.  Seems like it was a technique that GB may have developed and in doing so, I'm guessing they talked to the league about it.

Of note in the video...Lane Taylor has to play RT on a play and the play is an example of how the "hug" doesn't work.  But, it's a screen to Lane's side.  Not sure you want the hug to work in that situation.

The other interesting thing to me is how the traditional sets can fail like in the case of an undrafted free agent playing against a quality edge rusher.  I expect a guy named Kendall Lamb to have failed sets against a good edge rusher.  

 

[vegas492]

16 minutes ago, Joe said:

Not to distract from the debate, but you really don't think we have the RB position set with Aaron Jones? Aaron Jones has a higher average YPC and the only difference between the two is really the fact that Kamara has had more opportunities to produce. I'm willing to be that Jones would be more productive than Kamara has been if he had been given the same amount of carries and targets since their rookie year.

I'm unsure if Jones gets a long term deal.  He's been injury prone, and I still don't feel like he's a pass protector.

And Kamara?  Kamara runs routes like a WR.

I'm unsure if Aaron is on that level as a receiving threat as of now.

[HighCalebR]

I'd take Etienne with the 32nd pick.

[Fl0nkerton]

Just now, vegas492 said:

Some Bears fans threw this video my way to explain how GB gets away with holding.  I had honestly never seen, nor heard about this.

Whatcha think?  Seems to me like if it was holding, it would be called.  Seems like it was a technique that GB may have developed and in doing so, I'm guessing they talked to the league about it.

Of note in the video...Lane Taylor has to play RT on a play and the play is an example of how the "hug" doesn't work.  But, it's a screen to Lane's side.  Not sure you want the hug to work in that situation.

The other interesting thing to me is how the traditional sets can fail like in the case of an undrafted free agent playing against a quality edge rusher.  I expect a guy named Kendall Lamb to have failed sets against a good edge rusher.  

 

Fans usually resort to blaming the refs as their last excuse.

Unless it's an obvious miss like the NFC Championship last year, they will point the finger at every excuse besides getting beat. Whatever helps them cope with losing.